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In the extreme case, what if the minimum wage was $500000000 dollars. That would not work, and it would create a society where everything is done under the tabl

In the extreme case, what if the minimum wage was $500000000 dollars. That would not work, and it would create a society where everything is done under the table. Now, keep halving that value and ask at what point do people no longer feel required to do things under the table in order to make a basic living (sans criminals). It's not obvious what the right number is. On the other extreme, if the minimum wage was $0, it would be up to people to determine what they're willing to work for. At some point in the next millennium, all work will be creative work and the concept of a minimum wage probably won't even make sense anymore.

kristopolous 6y ago
Well sure, but that's the practice of politics. Just because there's no clear solution doesn't mean we disengage from it. It's why we have these multi thousand year old political projects, to try to do better with exactly these kinds of questions
carlob 6y ago
> At some point in the next millennium, all work will be creative work Or caregiving, more likely.
bawolff 6y ago
I'm not sure what your point is? There's very little in human society where we know the precise right value objectively. We still make choices in the absence of perfect information.
- anonytrary 6y ago
  > We still make choices in the absence of perfect information. The point is that imperfect choices are likely to be made with imperfect information. So, it's perfectly reasonable for people to be "for" and "against" the minimum wage being $44. Most people do not know the answer, so there's some consensus happening. Maybe every person should be part of direct consensus instead of a few people who are designated decision makers. Humans appoint a few individuals to make decisions on problems that are not known at the time of being appointed, so it seems like imperfect consensus. Would people have voted differently in 2016 if they knew there would be a pandemic in 2020? Maybe. Maybe not. Systems should have ways of course-correcting on a much smaller scale than 4 years. Guessing whether or not we should double minimum wage every few years doesn't work well. Numbers that don't take into account cost of living don't work. Why is the IRA income cut-off the same for someone who lives in Manhattan as it is for someone who lives in Omaha? The whole system seems off. Guessing a number for minimum wage and then mandating that until the next president updates it seems like the wrong approach.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
The best would be guaranteed basic income and ending minimum wage. Best of both worlds... People can "choose" to work or be creative and maybe start a rock band, or a business. This makes a lot more jobs available, more supply of jobs = more competition = higher wages organically. GBI guarantees nobody's homeless, everybody has a roof. Essentially poverty is gone, and some equilibrium between libertarianism, socialism, capitalism exists... sure there are players who this won't benefit as much... (Amazon, Walmart, etc...) but the rest of us...it just makes sense. Taxation will need to be re-thought, maybe land-value tax? Georgism has some interesting concepts as an economic model...
imtringued 6y ago
>At some point in the next millennium, all work will be creative work and the concept of a minimum wage probably won't even make sense anymore. That would require us to stop our biological urges to reproduce endlessly. No matter how much technological advancement you have, if the population grows faster than technological progress you're not going to have the necessary surplus for an utopia.

kristopolous 6y ago

Well sure, but that's the practice of politics. Just because there's no clear solution doesn't mean we disengage from it. It's why we have these multi thousand year old political projects, to try to do better with exactly these kinds of questions

carlob 6y ago

> At some point in the next millennium, all work will be creative work Or caregiving, more likely.

bawolff 6y ago

I'm not sure what your point is? There's very little in human society where we know the precise right value objectively. We still make choices in the absence of perfect information.

anonytrary 6y ago
> We still make choices in the absence of perfect information. The point is that imperfect choices are likely to be made with imperfect information. So, it's perfectly reasonable for people to be "for" and "against" the minimum wage being $44. Most people do not know the answer, so there's some consensus happening. Maybe every person should be part of direct consensus instead of a few people who are designated decision makers. Humans appoint a few individuals to make decisions on problems that are not known at the time of being appointed, so it seems like imperfect consensus. Would people have voted differently in 2016 if they knew there would be a pandemic in 2020? Maybe. Maybe not. Systems should have ways of course-correcting on a much smaller scale than 4 years. Guessing whether or not we should double minimum wage every few years doesn't work well. Numbers that don't take into account cost of living don't work. Why is the IRA income cut-off the same for someone who lives in Manhattan as it is for someone who lives in Omaha? The whole system seems off. Guessing a number for minimum wage and then mandating that until the next president updates it seems like the wrong approach.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

The best would be guaranteed basic income and ending minimum wage. Best of both worlds... People can "choose" to work or be creative and maybe start a rock band, or a business. This makes a lot more jobs available, more supply of jobs = more competition = higher wages organically. GBI guarantees nobody's homeless, everybody has a roof. Essentially poverty is gone, and some equilibrium between libertarianism, socialism, capitalism exists... sure there are players who this won't benefit as much... (Amazon, Walmart, etc...) but the rest of us...it just makes sense. Taxation will need to be re-thought, maybe land-value tax? Georgism has some interesting concepts as an economic model...

imtringued 6y ago

>At some point in the next millennium, all work will be creative work and the concept of a minimum wage probably won't even make sense anymore. That would require us to stop our biological urges to reproduce endlessly. No matter how much technological advancement you have, if the population grows faster than technological progress you're not going to have the necessary surplus for an utopia.