6 ms·

This is one of those areas where more companies need to realize they're not a FAANG. As Joel has pointed out in the past, you're not getting the cream of the cr

by jghn 6y ago

This is one of those areas where more companies need to realize they're not a FAANG. As Joel has pointed out in the past, you're not getting the cream of the crop as a normal company. Likewise you probably neither need nor even want the top. However what you do need is to plug a few holes here and there. As a hiring manager I find it much better to think in terms of a skill mesh. I'm always looking to bring the collective whole forward. A candidate can do that by bringing new skills to the table, by being awesome at existing skills, or some mix of all of the above.

rozap 6y ago
Plenty of "top" candidates don't work and don't want to work at a faang company.
- lostcolony 6y ago
  Quite honestly I have my doubts FAANG selects for "top" candidates anyway. Unless you define "top candidate" as "those FAANG selects".
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    The loop variance is very high, so there's a lot of error, but in terms of the overall quality of my co-workers, the FAANG i spent five years at was definitely the best. I do notice a substantial difference in average quality between them and less successful Bay Area companies, which does suggest that they are doing a reasonably good job at getting pretty good people in the door.
    - decafninja 6y ago
      I think passion comes into play here. You've got to have at least some amount of drive beyond "clock in at 9 and leave at 5 sharp to collect a paycheck" to get into these top tech companies. Even if at the end of the day, it's still a job, I don't think you can get into these companies unless you dedicate a way-above-average amount of time and effort to do so. Ignore all of the above if you are a natural leetcode wizard; yes I know there are some people like that.
      - buttscicles 6y ago
        > You've got to have at least some amount of drive beyond "clock in at 9 and leave at 5 sharp to collect a paycheck" to get into these top tech companies. I can't say how true this is or not, but I know there are plenty that _want_ to get in exactly so they can clock in & out without doing much
        disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Dunno, I got in relatively early without any leet-coding at all. To be fair though, I work in DS and was in the greater sales org, so there was more of a focus on what I could actually do. That being said, I think that it was that they (used to) hire people with drive, give them autonomy and a choice of what to work on from the large set of hard problems, and watch the money roll in.
    - lostcolony 6y ago
      Sounds like you're saying FAANG is above average. Which I'd grant, but that's not really a negation.
tsimionescu 6y ago
Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out of school, probably learned Java, maybe learned C or C++, probably learned Python. They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language but we want to use them to build good software. So, the language that we give them has to be easy for them to understand and easy to adopt.” https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2014/From-Parallel-to-Concurrent https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2014/Fr... (00:20:40 up to 00:21:10)
- rlanday 6y ago
  > They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language Maybe your language isn’t so “brilliant” if some of the smartest programmers in the world still can’t figure it out.
- jstummbillig 6y ago
  > Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.
  - johbjo 6y ago
    > The best coders can demand the highest salary. How would you confirm this with data?
    - tnel77 6y ago
      I’m not sure how you confirm this, but I don’t see how it’s not true. Do you (or other people on this thread) genuinely believe that the best software engineers aren’t demanding the best salaries? Who doesn’t want to make more money given the opportunity?

by jghn 6y ago

rozap 6y ago

Plenty of "top" candidates don't work and don't want to work at a faang company.

lostcolony 6y ago
Quite honestly I have my doubts FAANG selects for "top" candidates anyway. Unless you define "top candidate" as "those FAANG selects".
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  The loop variance is very high, so there's a lot of error, but in terms of the overall quality of my co-workers, the FAANG i spent five years at was definitely the best. I do notice a substantial difference in average quality between them and less successful Bay Area companies, which does suggest that they are doing a reasonably good job at getting pretty good people in the door.
  - decafninja 6y ago
    I think passion comes into play here. You've got to have at least some amount of drive beyond "clock in at 9 and leave at 5 sharp to collect a paycheck" to get into these top tech companies. Even if at the end of the day, it's still a job, I don't think you can get into these companies unless you dedicate a way-above-average amount of time and effort to do so. Ignore all of the above if you are a natural leetcode wizard; yes I know there are some people like that.
    - buttscicles 6y ago
      > You've got to have at least some amount of drive beyond "clock in at 9 and leave at 5 sharp to collect a paycheck" to get into these top tech companies. I can't say how true this is or not, but I know there are plenty that _want_ to get in exactly so they can clock in & out without doing much
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        Dunno, I got in relatively early without any leet-coding at all. To be fair though, I work in DS and was in the greater sales org, so there was more of a focus on what I could actually do. That being said, I think that it was that they (used to) hire people with drive, give them autonomy and a choice of what to work on from the large set of hard problems, and watch the money roll in.
  - lostcolony 6y ago
    Sounds like you're saying FAANG is above average. Which I'd grant, but that's not really a negation.

tsimionescu 6y ago

Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out of school, probably learned Java, maybe learned C or C++, probably learned Python. They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language but we want to use them to build good software. So, the language that we give them has to be easy for them to understand and easy to adopt.” https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2014/From-Parallel-to-Concurrent https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Lang-NEXT/Lang-NEXT-2014/Fr... (00:20:40 up to 00:21:10)

rlanday 6y ago
> They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language Maybe your language isn’t so “brilliant” if some of the smartest programmers in the world still can’t figure it out.
jstummbillig 6y ago
> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.
- johbjo 6y ago
  > The best coders can demand the highest salary. How would you confirm this with data?
  - tnel77 6y ago
    I’m not sure how you confirm this, but I don’t see how it’s not true. Do you (or other people on this thread) genuinely believe that the best software engineers aren’t demanding the best salaries? Who doesn’t want to make more money given the opportunity?