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After reading articles last year on Linus insinuating it would be "unlikely" that Linux would appear on the M1 [1] [2], I drank the cool-aid and took that at fa

by redm 6y ago

After reading articles last year on Linus insinuating it would be "unlikely" that Linux would appear on the M1 [1] [2], I drank the cool-aid and took that at face value. I guess I should have known better, just like nature, open source "finds a way". [1] https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=196533&curpostid=196570 https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=196533&curpost... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25216680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25216680 etc..

rrss 6y ago
it wasn't really cool-aid - while this is amazing progress, I think it's still a pretty long way to having M1 with Linux usable as a laptop. The GPU seems like it will be a big lift without documentation or support from apple.
tediousdemise 6y ago
Yeah, Linus doesn’t know what he’s taking about half the time.
- CraftThatBlock 6y ago
  I think the original statement that it was "unlikely" was correct, the effort put into this project has been incredibly impressive. As another poster has said, there's still a long ways to go for support.
riquito 6y ago
We are very far from running your run-of-the-mill Linux distribution. Remember that there are no drivers yet either
e12e 6y ago
Well, recall what he said about Linux.. :) > Hello everybody out there using minix – > I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. (.. .) > Linus > PS. Yes – it’s free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that’s all I have :-(.
rz2k 6y ago
There was a time when saying you didn't know how to do x on Linux forums got insults and RTFM replies, but saying that Linux was an incapable of doing x got helpful instructions given in exquisite detail. It did sound a bit like a taunt to enlist the community in figuring it out.
- kvz 6y ago
  Late Pieter Hintjens of ZeroMQ (and more) openly admitted to using this hack if he needed to have work done. State that something is impossible and watch developers tumble over each other to get it done and prove you wrong.
segfaultbuserr 6y ago
> After reading articles last year on Linus insinuating it would be "unlikely" that Linux would appear on the M1 [...] just like nature, open source "finds a way". Not necessarily. Reverse engineering the unknown architecture and porting the Linux kernel to the new machine is impressive work that we should support and celebrate. But making it to be a usable desktop or laptop computer (e.g. with functional power management, 3D acceleration and other drivers) is another matter. See Nvidia graphics. Even after 10 years, some cards are still not fully supported by Nouveau due to the lack of documentation. I'm afraid that Apple M1 is going to stuck at a similar state for a long time - technically, Linux boots, but it's not a machine you'd like to browse the web, write code, or carry around.
heavyset_go 6y ago
There are dozens of ARM SoCs that have support merged into the kernel, but that does not mean that a barebones kernel will run well or with full hardware support, or that you can just boot a generic ARM ISO, either. There's mainline support for ODROID boards, for example, but you're still dependent on the manufacturer for making sure new kernels actually work with the hardware and for new images. Once that manufacturer stops maintaining the kernel and images for their old hardware, either the community has to step up or you'll be running an increasingly out of date kernel and distro until you buy new hardware.
bananabreakfast 5y ago
This is somewhat of a nit-pic, but that's a very incorrect way to use the idiom "drank the kool-aid". You're using it here as a substitute for "I believed what he said", when in fact "Drank the kool-aid" means you are admitting you were brainwashed into believing a doomed idea to the point you're practically willing to die for it. The followers of Elizabeth Holmes or Adam Neumann can be said to have "drank the kool-aid". If you're not aware, it's a direct reference to the Jonestown mass suicide, so to me it comes off pretty jarring to see it used to refer to something as noncommittal and inconsequential as "I didn't disbelieve his statement".

by redm 6y ago

rrss 6y ago

it wasn't really cool-aid - while this is amazing progress, I think it's still a pretty long way to having M1 with Linux usable as a laptop. The GPU seems like it will be a big lift without documentation or support from apple.

tediousdemise 6y ago

Yeah, Linus doesn’t know what he’s taking about half the time.

CraftThatBlock 6y ago
I think the original statement that it was "unlikely" was correct, the effort put into this project has been incredibly impressive. As another poster has said, there's still a long ways to go for support.

riquito 6y ago

We are very far from running your run-of-the-mill Linux distribution. Remember that there are no drivers yet either

e12e 6y ago

Well, recall what he said about Linux.. :) > Hello everybody out there using minix – > I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. (.. .) > Linus > PS. Yes – it’s free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs. It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that’s all I have :-(.

rz2k 6y ago

There was a time when saying you didn't know how to do x on Linux forums got insults and RTFM replies, but saying that Linux was an incapable of doing x got helpful instructions given in exquisite detail. It did sound a bit like a taunt to enlist the community in figuring it out.

kvz 6y ago
Late Pieter Hintjens of ZeroMQ (and more) openly admitted to using this hack if he needed to have work done. State that something is impossible and watch developers tumble over each other to get it done and prove you wrong.

segfaultbuserr 6y ago

> After reading articles last year on Linus insinuating it would be "unlikely" that Linux would appear on the M1 [...] just like nature, open source "finds a way". Not necessarily. Reverse engineering the unknown architecture and porting the Linux kernel to the new machine is impressive work that we should support and celebrate. But making it to be a usable desktop or laptop computer (e.g. with functional power management, 3D acceleration and other drivers) is another matter. See Nvidia graphics. Even after 10 years, some cards are still not fully supported by Nouveau due to the lack of documentation. I'm afraid that Apple M1 is going to stuck at a similar state for a long time - technically, Linux boots, but it's not a machine you'd like to browse the web, write code, or carry around.

heavyset_go 6y ago

There are dozens of ARM SoCs that have support merged into the kernel, but that does not mean that a barebones kernel will run well or with full hardware support, or that you can just boot a generic ARM ISO, either. There's mainline support for ODROID boards, for example, but you're still dependent on the manufacturer for making sure new kernels actually work with the hardware and for new images. Once that manufacturer stops maintaining the kernel and images for their old hardware, either the community has to step up or you'll be running an increasingly out of date kernel and distro until you buy new hardware.

bananabreakfast 5y ago

This is somewhat of a nit-pic, but that's a very incorrect way to use the idiom "drank the kool-aid". You're using it here as a substitute for "I believed what he said", when in fact "Drank the kool-aid" means you are admitting you were brainwashed into believing a doomed idea to the point you're practically willing to die for it. The followers of Elizabeth Holmes or Adam Neumann can be said to have "drank the kool-aid". If you're not aware, it's a direct reference to the Jonestown mass suicide, so to me it comes off pretty jarring to see it used to refer to something as noncommittal and inconsequential as "I didn't disbelieve his statement".