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China already enjoys a massively lopsided business advantage compared to the US. It's an uphill battle for non-chinese companies to operate in China, for one Ch

China already enjoys a massively lopsided business advantage compared to the US. It's an uphill battle for non-chinese companies to operate in China, for one China requires that part of the ownership of the chinese venture must be owned by Chinese nationals, which means that the CCP also gets to sit on the board and see and influence everything they do. I can't think of any other major power that is this xenophobic.

SEJeff 6y ago
They did not require that for Tesla. The Shanghai is 100% American Tesla owned with no joint venture.
- refulgentis 6y ago
  Yes, the way the CCP does enforcement there is the Hong Kong model: there's an entity 100% owned by Tesla called Tesla Shanghai that has a 50 year lease on a state owned factory, Tesla invests $700 mil, state invests $2 bill, when loans are paid off, Tesla can begin transferring revenue stateside
  - SEJeff 6y ago
    That’s not a terrible model
  - blueblisters 6y ago
    Wait so the gigafactory plant and machinery is technically owned by the Chinese? Or is it just the factory land?
    - derivagral 6y ago
      From this and prior reading I'd expect: they (TSLA) own the factory and things in it, but the land it sits on is leased from the state, perhaps in some proportion to the funds invested. I don't live there, just been a couple times. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/real-property-law/china.php https://www.loc.gov/law/help/real-property-law/china.php
  - mlindner 6y ago
    Do you have a source for that? That is different than everything I've heard about the plant.
stereolambda 6y ago
I'm always thinking of companies who were making deals in Soviets almost a hundred years ago[1]. Obviously the capitalist leanings in the USSR were weaker after the 1920s and there are many differences, but I am not fully convinced it will look that different from a long term (many decades') perspective. I suppose these companies turned out okay? The fate of locals notwithstanding. /s [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialization_in_the_Soviet_Union#Use_of_foreign_specialists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialization_in_the_Sovie...
contingencies 6y ago
Foreigner running a (second) wholly owned venture in China here. While there are difficulties, the parent comment is certainly and completely wrong when it comes to ownership. I do not think China's approach to foreign economic immigration is particularly "xenophobic", and the regular people are exceptionally warm and welcoming. It's all the other issues once you get here that do you in!
- antman 6y ago
  Thanks for your input! Can you say in which kind of industry you are and a couple of key difficulties you faced?
  - contingencies 6y ago
    Food logistics and robotics. Issues: horrific HR market, immature and ineffective court and legal system, unstable if nominally progressive regulatory environment, corrupt gatekeeping businesses and no antitrust oversight, obtuse and opaque regulatory processes, loss of foreign talent over COVID (government suspended the use of already issued foreign visas and the issuing of any new ones), general infrastructure issues, outright blackmail, etc. China is not for the feint hearted.

SEJeff 6y ago

They did not require that for Tesla. The Shanghai is 100% American Tesla owned with no joint venture.

refulgentis 6y ago
Yes, the way the CCP does enforcement there is the Hong Kong model: there's an entity 100% owned by Tesla called Tesla Shanghai that has a 50 year lease on a state owned factory, Tesla invests $700 mil, state invests $2 bill, when loans are paid off, Tesla can begin transferring revenue stateside
- SEJeff 6y ago
  That’s not a terrible model
- blueblisters 6y ago
  Wait so the gigafactory plant and machinery is technically owned by the Chinese? Or is it just the factory land?
  - derivagral 6y ago
    From this and prior reading I'd expect: they (TSLA) own the factory and things in it, but the land it sits on is leased from the state, perhaps in some proportion to the funds invested. I don't live there, just been a couple times. https://www.loc.gov/law/help/real-property-law/china.php https://www.loc.gov/law/help/real-property-law/china.php
- mlindner 6y ago
  Do you have a source for that? That is different than everything I've heard about the plant.

stereolambda 6y ago

I'm always thinking of companies who were making deals in Soviets almost a hundred years ago[1]. Obviously the capitalist leanings in the USSR were weaker after the 1920s and there are many differences, but I am not fully convinced it will look that different from a long term (many decades') perspective. I suppose these companies turned out okay? The fate of locals notwithstanding. /s [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialization_in_the_Soviet_Union#Use_of_foreign_specialists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrialization_in_the_Sovie...

contingencies 6y ago

Foreigner running a (second) wholly owned venture in China here. While there are difficulties, the parent comment is certainly and completely wrong when it comes to ownership. I do not think China's approach to foreign economic immigration is particularly "xenophobic", and the regular people are exceptionally warm and welcoming. It's all the other issues once you get here that do you in!

antman 6y ago
Thanks for your input! Can you say in which kind of industry you are and a couple of key difficulties you faced?
- contingencies 6y ago
  Food logistics and robotics. Issues: horrific HR market, immature and ineffective court and legal system, unstable if nominally progressive regulatory environment, corrupt gatekeeping businesses and no antitrust oversight, obtuse and opaque regulatory processes, loss of foreign talent over COVID (government suspended the use of already issued foreign visas and the issuing of any new ones), general infrastructure issues, outright blackmail, etc. China is not for the feint hearted.