4 ms·

Thiel is a textbook pseudo-intellectual. Thinks he’s super smart because he made a ton of money as an entrepreneur and believes it makes him some kind of states

by davedx 6y ago

Thiel is a textbook pseudo-intellectual. Thinks he’s super smart because he made a ton of money as an entrepreneur and believes it makes him some kind of statesman. While I think there are some successful entrepreneurs out there that do have some of these qualities (maybe Gates?), Thiel sure isn’t one. As you point out, his intellectual bankruptcy is in plain sight

justapassenger 6y ago
I don’t think it’s exclusive to entrepreneurs. A lot of people who happen to be successful, by their standards, assume it’s thanks to their superiority. You can see that clearly in software engineering. There’s tons of people who consider themselves super smart and experts on world problems, just because someone is paying them $200k per year to move around buttons in css.
- Analemma_ 6y ago
  "As computer programmers, our formative intellectual experience is working with deterministic systems that have been designed by other human beings. These can be very complex, but the complexity is not the kind we find in the natural world. It is ultimately always tractable. Find the right abstractions, and the puzzle box opens before you. The feeling of competence, control and delight in discovering a clever twist that solves a difficult problem is what makes being a computer programmer sometimes enjoyable. But as anyone who’s worked with tech people knows, this intellectual background can also lead to arrogance. People who excel at software design become convinced that they have a unique ability to understand any kind of system at all, from first principles, without prior training, thanks to their superior powers of analysis. Success in the artificially constructed world of software design promotes a dangerous confidence." -- idlewords, emphasis mine
  - clairity 6y ago
    yah, logic is an idealization--a linearization in a decidedly non-linear and stochastic universe--that works in a constructed context but not beyond it. it's how newtonian mechanics is so very useful at our scale but cannot fully explain ourselves, much less the world or the universe. understanding thiel requires understanding that he decidedly comes at issues with self-interest and ego first (and a bit paranoia) rather than priciples, despite the contrary image he tries to project.
- davedx 6y ago
  The stock market is a great way to show software developers how they’re absolutely not super rational first principle thinkers they may believe they are. (I have some experience of this :D)
- the_only_law 6y ago
  Reminds me of an HN comment I once read claiming something along the lines of how software engineers were in general smarter than other engineering disciplines.
enraged_camel 6y ago
A couple of months ago a techie friend linked me a podcast episode featuring Peter Thiel being interviewed by Eric Weinstein. He raved about how it was incredible and groundbreaking. The episode itself may have been from 2018 or 2019. I watched the entire thing (I think close to 3 hours), and about halfway through I came to the realization that both Peter and Eric were using a lot of words... to say basically nothing. The entire thing was full of truisms and platitudes and overall grievances about the state of science and technology and the slowing down of innovation, with some politics and economics thrown in. Neither of them knew the underlying subjects well, if at all, but had read or heard other people's various takes on them, packaged it up using lots of jargon, and were now spouting it as "wisdom." It left a very sour taste in my mouth, because I also read Zero to One, and Peter (probably thanks to a very good editor) came across as much more cogent there.
- splithalf 6y ago
  I thought there were a few interesting thoughts in that interview. While I like Eric Weinstein I don’t know that he brings out the best of the people he interviews. Compare to say Fridman, or even Rogan. A number of Eric’s guests have been really interesting people but the interviews were ho hum, maybe because Eric likes his own, often complicated, ideas too much.
splithalf 6y ago
People sure do “protest too much” given his obvious intellectual bankruptcy. He also seems to have more fan boys than gates, though gates is clearly a more shrewd businessman. Gates is a programmer, thiel a lawyer; quite different in terms of worldviews and ethics. Gates seems less idealistic, thiel more concerned with universal principles imho.
- davedx 6y ago
  Which universal principles is he concerned about exactly? The libertarian who founded a state surveillance company?
  - splithalf 6y ago
    My point was that lawyers and programmers both abstract, but in different ways. I feel like gates, as an engineer, is likely to view political frameworks and other philosophical aspects of the global system as second order to economic, demographic and military realities. Money talks, bullshit walks is the mindset I ascribe to gates. I don’t think gates would be influenced much by the ideas of Rene girard, compared to thiel who has a worldview based or at least heavily influenced by girardian principles.
api 6y ago
Success in any respect -- wealth, fame, accolades, awards, anything -- is incredibly dangerous to one's capacity for objective and rational thought. It tells the brain "you are doing everything right, keep doing more of it" and the result is often nothing but self-referential confirmation bias for the remainder of life. The instant a person considers themselves a success, they often stop learning or thinking.
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads on tedious name-calling tangents. It's against the site guidelines and it's not interesting. You may not owe "textbook pseudo-intellectuals" better, but you owe this community much better if you're posting here. Similarly for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740473 - there's no content there, just a celebrity boo. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740119.

by davedx 6y ago

justapassenger 6y ago

I don’t think it’s exclusive to entrepreneurs. A lot of people who happen to be successful, by their standards, assume it’s thanks to their superiority. You can see that clearly in software engineering. There’s tons of people who consider themselves super smart and experts on world problems, just because someone is paying them $200k per year to move around buttons in css.

Analemma_ 6y ago
"As computer programmers, our formative intellectual experience is working with deterministic systems that have been designed by other human beings. These can be very complex, but the complexity is not the kind we find in the natural world. It is ultimately always tractable. Find the right abstractions, and the puzzle box opens before you. The feeling of competence, control and delight in discovering a clever twist that solves a difficult problem is what makes being a computer programmer sometimes enjoyable. But as anyone who’s worked with tech people knows, this intellectual background can also lead to arrogance. People who excel at software design become convinced that they have a unique ability to understand any kind of system at all, from first principles, without prior training, thanks to their superior powers of analysis. Success in the artificially constructed world of software design promotes a dangerous confidence." -- idlewords, emphasis mine
- clairity 6y ago
  yah, logic is an idealization--a linearization in a decidedly non-linear and stochastic universe--that works in a constructed context but not beyond it. it's how newtonian mechanics is so very useful at our scale but cannot fully explain ourselves, much less the world or the universe. understanding thiel requires understanding that he decidedly comes at issues with self-interest and ego first (and a bit paranoia) rather than priciples, despite the contrary image he tries to project.
davedx 6y ago
The stock market is a great way to show software developers how they’re absolutely not super rational first principle thinkers they may believe they are. (I have some experience of this :D)
the_only_law 6y ago
Reminds me of an HN comment I once read claiming something along the lines of how software engineers were in general smarter than other engineering disciplines.

enraged_camel 6y ago

A couple of months ago a techie friend linked me a podcast episode featuring Peter Thiel being interviewed by Eric Weinstein. He raved about how it was incredible and groundbreaking. The episode itself may have been from 2018 or 2019. I watched the entire thing (I think close to 3 hours), and about halfway through I came to the realization that both Peter and Eric were using a lot of words... to say basically nothing. The entire thing was full of truisms and platitudes and overall grievances about the state of science and technology and the slowing down of innovation, with some politics and economics thrown in. Neither of them knew the underlying subjects well, if at all, but had read or heard other people's various takes on them, packaged it up using lots of jargon, and were now spouting it as "wisdom." It left a very sour taste in my mouth, because I also read Zero to One, and Peter (probably thanks to a very good editor) came across as much more cogent there.

splithalf 6y ago
I thought there were a few interesting thoughts in that interview. While I like Eric Weinstein I don’t know that he brings out the best of the people he interviews. Compare to say Fridman, or even Rogan. A number of Eric’s guests have been really interesting people but the interviews were ho hum, maybe because Eric likes his own, often complicated, ideas too much.

splithalf 6y ago

People sure do “protest too much” given his obvious intellectual bankruptcy. He also seems to have more fan boys than gates, though gates is clearly a more shrewd businessman. Gates is a programmer, thiel a lawyer; quite different in terms of worldviews and ethics. Gates seems less idealistic, thiel more concerned with universal principles imho.

davedx 6y ago
Which universal principles is he concerned about exactly? The libertarian who founded a state surveillance company?
- splithalf 6y ago
  My point was that lawyers and programmers both abstract, but in different ways. I feel like gates, as an engineer, is likely to view political frameworks and other philosophical aspects of the global system as second order to economic, demographic and military realities. Money talks, bullshit walks is the mindset I ascribe to gates. I don’t think gates would be influenced much by the ideas of Rene girard, compared to thiel who has a worldview based or at least heavily influenced by girardian principles.

api 6y ago

Success in any respect -- wealth, fame, accolades, awards, anything -- is incredibly dangerous to one's capacity for objective and rational thought. It tells the brain "you are doing everything right, keep doing more of it" and the result is often nothing but self-referential confirmation bias for the remainder of life. The instant a person considers themselves a success, they often stop learning or thinking.

dang 6y ago

Please don't take HN threads on tedious name-calling tangents. It's against the site guidelines and it's not interesting. You may not owe "textbook pseudo-intellectuals" better, but you owe this community much better if you're posting here. Similarly for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740473 - there's no content there, just a celebrity boo. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26740119.