5 ms·

I don't know if you've ever driven in an American city, but those streets can barely fit a single lane of car traffic in some cases. Philadelphia in particular

I don't know if you've ever driven in an American city, but those streets can barely fit a single lane of car traffic in some cases. Philadelphia in particular has streets so narrow that the line of parked cars along the side is enough to basically block the whole street. It's already incredibly uncomfortable to drive on those streets, so I don't get why you're so surprised that people would be angry about further increasing their already quite high levels of discomfort.

papertokyo 6y ago
The majority of streets in American cities are massive. Single lane streets are generally slower traffic so separated cycle lanes aren't necessary...just some markings to remind drivers that cyclists might use this part of the road. Paris has a lot of those.
- moistbar 6y ago
  The bike lanes in the east coast cities I've been to aren't safe for cyclists and do nothing but take up breathing room for drivers. It's not uncommon to see a bike lane disappear after 50 feet because there was no space to continue it.
occz 6y ago
It should not be comfortable to drive around in a city. You are in a place with lots of people you can harm with your vehicle if you drive around fast, you should be driving slowly and paying close attention to your surroundings. Proper bicycle infrastructure (separated bike lanes etc.) and quality public transportation is the solution - the comfortable option should generally be to take a train/metro/bus/tram/boat.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  If uncomfortable drivers were good drivers tanks and fork lifts wouldn't have seat cushions. Unless cars are different than every piece of heavy equipment and industrial machinery ever (which have been studied into oblivion because there's money at stake) comfortable drivers are safe/effective/better drivers because it reduces cognitive load allowing operators to be more attentive to second order things (mirrors, what the car in front of the car in front of them is doing and so on). I agree we need much more public transit and bike lanes. I think most car commuters would switch to subway at the city outskirts if the value prop was good enough.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    > If uncomfortable drivers were good drivers tanks and fork lifts wouldn't have seat cushions. Wrong kind of discomfort. You want drivers to be wary and keep them thinking about navigation enough that they don't zone out.
  - occz 6y ago
    In addition to the other response, I suggest you check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming - these are all measures that make it slightly less comfortable to drive in order to create safer environments for non-protected trafficants.
- moistbar 6y ago
  > It should not be comfortable to drive around in a city. By this logic, aggressive drivers are also a good thing because they stress you out while driving.
  - occz 6y ago
    I'm not sure that aggressive drivers actually cause other drivers to drive more safely. Of course, you didn't believe that either when you wrote that comment.
- tomjen3 6y ago
  Please. Try to make the public transport comfortable. That means a seat (I get that in a car), not having to crawl over somebody else next to me or have them sit too close. It means not having to worry is a fight is about to break out, having some punk shine a laser in your eyes (happened to me), having space to put down my bag and some place to put my feet (I am short, I don't reach the floor in most busses). It means no crying children (meaning no small children on the buss at all). It means that and a million other things. It also means I don't have to stand in the rain to wait for a bus, ever. Oh, and it means no pandemic. I am not going to sit in an enclosed space with strangers at this time.
  - occz 6y ago
    >Please. Try to make the public transport comfortable. That means a seat (I get that in a car), not having to crawl over somebody else next to me or have them sit too close. I agree that investments should be made to keep the capacity of public transportation at not too crowded levels at all times. However, have your legs been weakened enough by spending time in a car that you're unable to stand occasionally? >It means not having to worry is a fight is about to break out, This is probably a socio-economic issue if anything >having some punk shine a laser in your eyes (happened to me), Sad to hear that has happened to you. >having space to put down my bag and some place to put my feet (I am short, I don't reach the floor in most busses). I agree that the design of certain means of public transportation suffers from poor design. >It means no crying children (meaning no small children on the buss at all). It means that and a million other things. Might I suggest moving to the remote wilderness, instead? There you will be fully insulated from the rest of mankind. >It also means I don't have to stand in the rain to wait for a bus, ever. This problem is mostly solved by covered bus stops (roof + a few walls), that protects against the elements. >Oh, and it means no pandemic. I am not going to sit in an enclosed space with strangers at this time. The pandemic is the exception. Just because traveling by car (second to not traveling at all, by the way) is better than public transportation during the pandemic does not mean that we should ignore the incredible harm that car-centric design is inflicting continuously on the world.
- moistbar 6y ago
  Just come out and say you irrationally hate cars already, Jesus Christ.
  - occz 6y ago
    I do not irrationally hate cars - I just have the perspective that we should design our shared spaces in a manner that leads to the least amount of deaths.
chucksta 6y ago
Most streets of that size Philadelphia do not require a bike lane. But say they tiny fraction they took of 11th which is massive... https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/philadelphia-street-safety-vision-zero-bicycle-china-tariff-road-20191024.html https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/philadelphia-street-...
- moistbar 6y ago
  Having biked in Philadelphia, only Center City has anything approaching usable bike lanes, and even there they come and go seemingly at random in places.

papertokyo 6y ago

The majority of streets in American cities are massive. Single lane streets are generally slower traffic so separated cycle lanes aren't necessary...just some markings to remind drivers that cyclists might use this part of the road. Paris has a lot of those.

moistbar 6y ago
The bike lanes in the east coast cities I've been to aren't safe for cyclists and do nothing but take up breathing room for drivers. It's not uncommon to see a bike lane disappear after 50 feet because there was no space to continue it.

occz 6y ago

It should not be comfortable to drive around in a city. You are in a place with lots of people you can harm with your vehicle if you drive around fast, you should be driving slowly and paying close attention to your surroundings. Proper bicycle infrastructure (separated bike lanes etc.) and quality public transportation is the solution - the comfortable option should generally be to take a train/metro/bus/tram/boat.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
If uncomfortable drivers were good drivers tanks and fork lifts wouldn't have seat cushions. Unless cars are different than every piece of heavy equipment and industrial machinery ever (which have been studied into oblivion because there's money at stake) comfortable drivers are safe/effective/better drivers because it reduces cognitive load allowing operators to be more attentive to second order things (mirrors, what the car in front of the car in front of them is doing and so on). I agree we need much more public transit and bike lanes. I think most car commuters would switch to subway at the city outskirts if the value prop was good enough.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  > If uncomfortable drivers were good drivers tanks and fork lifts wouldn't have seat cushions. Wrong kind of discomfort. You want drivers to be wary and keep them thinking about navigation enough that they don't zone out.
- occz 6y ago
  In addition to the other response, I suggest you check out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming - these are all measures that make it slightly less comfortable to drive in order to create safer environments for non-protected trafficants.
moistbar 6y ago
> It should not be comfortable to drive around in a city. By this logic, aggressive drivers are also a good thing because they stress you out while driving.
- occz 6y ago
  I'm not sure that aggressive drivers actually cause other drivers to drive more safely. Of course, you didn't believe that either when you wrote that comment.
tomjen3 6y ago
Please. Try to make the public transport comfortable. That means a seat (I get that in a car), not having to crawl over somebody else next to me or have them sit too close. It means not having to worry is a fight is about to break out, having some punk shine a laser in your eyes (happened to me), having space to put down my bag and some place to put my feet (I am short, I don't reach the floor in most busses). It means no crying children (meaning no small children on the buss at all). It means that and a million other things. It also means I don't have to stand in the rain to wait for a bus, ever. Oh, and it means no pandemic. I am not going to sit in an enclosed space with strangers at this time.
- occz 6y ago
  >Please. Try to make the public transport comfortable. That means a seat (I get that in a car), not having to crawl over somebody else next to me or have them sit too close. I agree that investments should be made to keep the capacity of public transportation at not too crowded levels at all times. However, have your legs been weakened enough by spending time in a car that you're unable to stand occasionally? >It means not having to worry is a fight is about to break out, This is probably a socio-economic issue if anything >having some punk shine a laser in your eyes (happened to me), Sad to hear that has happened to you. >having space to put down my bag and some place to put my feet (I am short, I don't reach the floor in most busses). I agree that the design of certain means of public transportation suffers from poor design. >It means no crying children (meaning no small children on the buss at all). It means that and a million other things. Might I suggest moving to the remote wilderness, instead? There you will be fully insulated from the rest of mankind. >It also means I don't have to stand in the rain to wait for a bus, ever. This problem is mostly solved by covered bus stops (roof + a few walls), that protects against the elements. >Oh, and it means no pandemic. I am not going to sit in an enclosed space with strangers at this time. The pandemic is the exception. Just because traveling by car (second to not traveling at all, by the way) is better than public transportation during the pandemic does not mean that we should ignore the incredible harm that car-centric design is inflicting continuously on the world.
moistbar 6y ago
Just come out and say you irrationally hate cars already, Jesus Christ.
- occz 6y ago
  I do not irrationally hate cars - I just have the perspective that we should design our shared spaces in a manner that leads to the least amount of deaths.

chucksta 6y ago

Most streets of that size Philadelphia do not require a bike lane. But say they tiny fraction they took of 11th which is massive... https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/philadelphia-street-safety-vision-zero-bicycle-china-tariff-road-20191024.html https://www.inquirer.com/transportation/philadelphia-street-...

moistbar 6y ago
Having biked in Philadelphia, only Center City has anything approaching usable bike lanes, and even there they come and go seemingly at random in places.