4 ms·

I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future will draw incorrect equivalence with whatever they want like "you suppor

I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future will draw incorrect equivalence with whatever they want like "you support RMS then you are an X " where X seems to be a pedo. I am also wondering how many GNU/FSF haters are participating in just because they prefer MIT/BSD and see GNU as a cancer eating at their money making scheme.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
> I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future ... That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for: to make people afraid to oppose them. The only way to stop it is not cave in to their absurd demands. Be strong, live without fear, and do the right thing.
- junke 6y ago
  So: I’ll leave you with three more bits of evidence that things are more complex than the open letter would have you believe: 1. A competing letter in support of RMS exists and has accumulated considerably more signatures than the letter condemning RMS. 2. In response someone created a Chrome extension that marks repositories owned by a signatory of this support letter with red text on GitHub. 3. The announcement of this extension was welcomed with 394 likes on Twitter. Just tell us why is it bad again? There is a public repository, with people signing publicly. The plugin does not reveal any hidden information, the only thing it does is make it easier to find out if someone publicly supports RMS. If you look at outliers you may find individuals who equate signing the letter with being a pedo, but I have yet to see a major Twitter account implying so. For me it just means I might not get along with the person since they do not think RMS being in the board is an issue for FSF. Also, "the mob this", "the mob that", you can't just label people "mob" when you disagree with them. > That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for: to make people afraid to oppose them. Look who is insulting people here and making assumptions. Please, be strong and talk freely, I don't care.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    The trouble is that one generation ago we as people of the free world abhorred the idea of punishing individuals for their beliefs. Now that has changed. It's not the first time this happened, and it certainly won't be the last, but it's always ended badly in the past.
    - junke 6y ago
      religious beliefs != informed opinions Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him?
      - kstenerud 6y ago
        > religious beliefs != informed opinions Opinions are beliefs, and beliefs aren't by necessity religious. > Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him? Thank you for the example. This never used to be an issue. 15 years ago, one didn't care what a colleague believed, so long as they conducted business in a professional manner. Nowadays one feels a need to distance ones self at all costs lest one be tarred with the same brush and similarly punished (as we see happening all around us these days - and in fact specifically in your earlier Chrome extension example).
      - simion314 6y ago
        >Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him? Say I created an open source library and you are a contributor, now you find out that I am a pro-life (or communist or watch dubious japanese adult content), you are free to stop contributing sure, but why should you try to steal my job and project because you don;t like my opinions? You probably will say that is bad PR for my library and my library is very important for the community so you should spread a lot of missinformation about me to force me out and free the library using mod tactics.
- josteink 6y ago
  > That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for That’s pretty much the core of the entire SJW-movement right there.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  And this is what has made the far right (and Trump) so attractive recently. The far right says "No, fuck you!" to pretty much everything the far left says, speaking power which is attractive. And in a country where you only have two political choices, it's always a devil's bargain because the policies of those parties become more and more polarized by their extremist elements. Most people don't want the far left OR the far right, except they basically have no choice but to pick one, so they pick the one that feels the least like they're being trampled upon and then dutifully demonize the opposition. When both sides are peddling oppression, the people choose out of pain avoidance rather than positive, thoughtful action.
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago
  Another way is to comment and show support in a way that is not linked to your real identity. If people try to claim these are fake accounts, point out how people fear to show support publicly.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    That is far from ideal. In Russia there is a whole new industry of bot commenters who flood all online forums, comment sections and social networks with pro-Putin comments, drowning the opposition by the sheer numbers of persons with fake identities. The result is an illusion of an overwhelming support of Putin. This tactics can be applied to almost anything, so no, supporting anonymously is not the solution.
dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
The very fact that we're having this conversation now means the world has become a sad place.
pydry 6y ago
That's pretty much the whole point of astroturfing this mob. If RMS declared his undying love for MIT/BSD tomorrow the instigators would likely lose all interest in RMS's views on Minsky and their outrage-puppets would abruptly move on to a different scandal.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
taylodl 6y ago
> I am also wondering how many GNU/FSF haters are participating in just because they prefer MIT/BSD and see GNU as a cancer eating at their money making scheme. Bingo! Corporate interests have been taking aim at the GNU license and the FSF for decades. They hate that they can't steal free software, make it proprietary, and profit from it - without having to make the entirety of the source available to their customers which thwarts their profit plans. How many Ask HN posts have we seen where someone is complaining that someone swooped in and "stole" their software, utilizing some form of a BSD license, and are now profiting from it? If you want to protect yourself from such hucksters then become a member of the FSF and license your code with GPL. Now you have legal protection.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

> I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future ... That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for: to make people afraid to oppose them. The only way to stop it is not cave in to their absurd demands. Be strong, live without fear, and do the right thing.

junke 6y ago
So: I’ll leave you with three more bits of evidence that things are more complex than the open letter would have you believe: 1. A competing letter in support of RMS exists and has accumulated considerably more signatures than the letter condemning RMS. 2. In response someone created a Chrome extension that marks repositories owned by a signatory of this support letter with red text on GitHub. 3. The announcement of this extension was welcomed with 394 likes on Twitter. Just tell us why is it bad again? There is a public repository, with people signing publicly. The plugin does not reveal any hidden information, the only thing it does is make it easier to find out if someone publicly supports RMS. If you look at outliers you may find individuals who equate signing the letter with being a pedo, but I have yet to see a major Twitter account implying so. For me it just means I might not get along with the person since they do not think RMS being in the board is an issue for FSF. Also, "the mob this", "the mob that", you can't just label people "mob" when you disagree with them. > That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for: to make people afraid to oppose them. Look who is insulting people here and making assumptions. Please, be strong and talk freely, I don't care.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  The trouble is that one generation ago we as people of the free world abhorred the idea of punishing individuals for their beliefs. Now that has changed. It's not the first time this happened, and it certainly won't be the last, but it's always ended badly in the past.
  - junke 6y ago
    religious beliefs != informed opinions Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him?
    - kstenerud 6y ago
      > religious beliefs != informed opinions Opinions are beliefs, and beliefs aren't by necessity religious. > Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him? Thank you for the example. This never used to be an issue. 15 years ago, one didn't care what a colleague believed, so long as they conducted business in a professional manner. Nowadays one feels a need to distance ones self at all costs lest one be tarred with the same brush and similarly punished (as we see happening all around us these days - and in fact specifically in your earlier Chrome extension example).
    - simion314 6y ago
      >Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him? Say I created an open source library and you are a contributor, now you find out that I am a pro-life (or communist or watch dubious japanese adult content), you are free to stop contributing sure, but why should you try to steal my job and project because you don;t like my opinions? You probably will say that is bad PR for my library and my library is very important for the community so you should spread a lot of missinformation about me to force me out and free the library using mod tactics.
josteink 6y ago
> That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for That’s pretty much the core of the entire SJW-movement right there.
kstenerud 6y ago
And this is what has made the far right (and Trump) so attractive recently. The far right says "No, fuck you!" to pretty much everything the far left says, speaking power which is attractive. And in a country where you only have two political choices, it's always a devil's bargain because the policies of those parties become more and more polarized by their extremist elements. Most people don't want the far left OR the far right, except they basically have no choice but to pick one, so they pick the one that feels the least like they're being trampled upon and then dutifully demonize the opposition. When both sides are peddling oppression, the people choose out of pain avoidance rather than positive, thoughtful action.
PurpleFoxy 6y ago
Another way is to comment and show support in a way that is not linked to your real identity. If people try to claim these are fake accounts, point out how people fear to show support publicly.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  That is far from ideal. In Russia there is a whole new industry of bot commenters who flood all online forums, comment sections and social networks with pro-Putin comments, drowning the opposition by the sheer numbers of persons with fake identities. The result is an illusion of an overwhelming support of Putin. This tactics can be applied to almost anything, so no, supporting anonymously is not the solution.

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

The very fact that we're having this conversation now means the world has become a sad place.

pydry 6y ago

That's pretty much the whole point of astroturfing this mob. If RMS declared his undying love for MIT/BSD tomorrow the instigators would likely lose all interest in RMS's views on Minsky and their outrage-puppets would abruptly move on to a different scandal.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

taylodl 6y ago

> I am also wondering how many GNU/FSF haters are participating in just because they prefer MIT/BSD and see GNU as a cancer eating at their money making scheme. Bingo! Corporate interests have been taking aim at the GNU license and the FSF for decades. They hate that they can't steal free software, make it proprietary, and profit from it - without having to make the entirety of the source available to their customers which thwarts their profit plans. How many Ask HN posts have we seen where someone is complaining that someone swooped in and "stole" their software, utilizing some form of a BSD license, and are now profiting from it? If you want to protect yourself from such hucksters then become a member of the FSF and license your code with GPL. Now you have legal protection.