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> To start with - the top 1% is a relatively accessible level of "rich." That's an L5/L6 software engineer at Google, or a mid career doctor. Are offshore tax s

> To start with - the top 1% is a relatively accessible level of "rich." That's an L5/L6 software engineer at Google, or a mid career doctor. Are offshore tax shelters actually available and economically feasible to these people? I wonder if "1%" is just a number that is repeated when talking about this subject. Another article debated on HN: https://rantt.com/the-paradise-papers-how-ridiculously-easy-it-is-for-the-rich-to-avoid-taxes https://rantt.com/the-paradise-papers-how-ridiculously-easy-... also refers to "the 1%". There's a detailed article on the 1%: https://dqydj.com/top-one-percent-united-states https://dqydj.com/top-one-percent-united-states EDIT: It seems to me that 1% is beyond accessibility. I think that 10% is a (very generic, rough) threshold that can be reached with effort, but not 1%.

trutannus 6y ago
>I wonder if "1%" is just a number that is repeated when talking about this subject. I'm inclined to think it is. Often times I'll see 1% discussed in articles and the threshold is different each time. At this point, I'm certain that 1% is just a rhetorical device used to mean "bad people with money".
- andrepd 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure you are projecting. The "1%" became a slogan around the time of the Occupy movement, coming frkm the fact that 1% of the world's population owns 50% of its wealth, which is such a hilariously skewed proportion.
  - trutannus 6y ago
    > The "1%" became a slogan around the time of the Occupy movement This is correct. Since then it's become more of a slogan like "power to the people" than a useful statistic. In some countries, 1% would include a couple who are both mid level engineers -- that's well off, but not "ultra rich" by any rational standard. The main reason is that the 1% figure often refers to households, rather than single individuals. It's more a short hand for "ultra rich", rather than an actual measurement of what portion is actually "ultra rich".
    - andrepd 6y ago
      Did you read what I said? The top 1% of income is ~750,000$ individual, hardly mid-level engineers... As for top 1% net worth, it's ~11 mil$, again hardly "upper-middle class".
      - maxerickson 6y ago
        You are mixing global and US comparisons.
      - trutannus 6y ago
        In the USA, sure, where I'm from it's $300,000 gross household. The United States isn't the representative of the entire world. That's why I specified in some countries.
throwaways885 6y ago
Also, people tend to use 1% of the United States, not 1% of the world. It's easy to be angry if you're only looking up the totem pole.
klaudius 6y ago
They use 1% because number 1 is an integer and it can represent a whole person. This is useful for scapegoating and hatred. "The 99% vs. the 1% is the modern articulation of this classic scapegoating mechanism. It is all minus one versus the one. And it has to just be the one. 99.99 people or percent is too granular. Scapegoating 0.1 doesn’t really work. You need a whole person to play the victim. Similarly, 98-2 doesn’t quite have the same ring to it either. " Source: https://blakemasters.com/post/24578683805/peter-thiels-cs183-startup-class-18-notes https://blakemasters.com/post/24578683805/peter-thiels-cs183....
- andrepd 6y ago
  The "1%" slogan arose in the Occupy movement, from statistics such "1% of the people own 50% of global wealth", which such an inexcusable level of inequality. Ah but no, they are the victims, poor them.
bluecalm 6y ago
There are a lot of people making 360k+ with effort. You most likely need to be talented and have very good work ethic (rare combination) and then focus on right industry. Big trading firms, programming if you're very good or not that good but not risk averse and willing to take shots to start businesses. Of course not everyone can get there, it's 1% after all but you don't need to be born into it or one in a million genius.
tjs8rj 6y ago
Keep in mind the level of churn. An implicit bias easy to make is forgetting that these are percentiles, not people, and most people move through different percentiles at different times in their life. 11% of Americans will be in the 1% for at least 1 year in their life, 39% will be in the top 10% at some point, 61% in the top 20%[1][2]. 94% of those in the top 1% fall out in a year, 99% within a decade[1]. In other words: being a 1%er is a very transient title for the vast majority of even the rich who make it there. [1]: https://www.cato.org/blog/high-turnover-among-americas-rich https://www.cato.org/blog/high-turnover-among-americas-rich [2]: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most...
- snypher 6y ago
  >11% of Americans will be in the 1% for at least 1 year in their life 11% of Americans will make over $500k a year, or have $12M in assets, for one year? This cannot possibly be true. Oh, Cato Institute? Say no more.
  - pseudo0 6y ago
    Is 11% earning $500k for at least one year really that surprising? For example, a mom and pop small business selling their store in order to retire could qualify for one year, but that money would likely be the bulk of their retirement savings. It's probably not a useful metric though, if most of those people break $500k due to one-off lump sum payments.
  - tjs8rj 6y ago
    The npr source said 5% of Americans will be in the 1% for 2 consecutive years, so the Cato numbers aren’t far from what you might expect.
- bumby 6y ago
  What matters more, I believe, is wealth rather than income. It’s been awhile since I’ve read it, but The Meritocracy Trap outlines the case that wealth can be less transitory.

trutannus 6y ago

>I wonder if "1%" is just a number that is repeated when talking about this subject. I'm inclined to think it is. Often times I'll see 1% discussed in articles and the threshold is different each time. At this point, I'm certain that 1% is just a rhetorical device used to mean "bad people with money".

andrepd 6y ago
I'm pretty sure you are projecting. The "1%" became a slogan around the time of the Occupy movement, coming frkm the fact that 1% of the world's population owns 50% of its wealth, which is such a hilariously skewed proportion.
- trutannus 6y ago
  > The "1%" became a slogan around the time of the Occupy movement This is correct. Since then it's become more of a slogan like "power to the people" than a useful statistic. In some countries, 1% would include a couple who are both mid level engineers -- that's well off, but not "ultra rich" by any rational standard. The main reason is that the 1% figure often refers to households, rather than single individuals. It's more a short hand for "ultra rich", rather than an actual measurement of what portion is actually "ultra rich".
  - andrepd 6y ago
    Did you read what I said? The top 1% of income is ~750,000$ individual, hardly mid-level engineers... As for top 1% net worth, it's ~11 mil$, again hardly "upper-middle class".
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      You are mixing global and US comparisons.
    - trutannus 6y ago
      In the USA, sure, where I'm from it's $300,000 gross household. The United States isn't the representative of the entire world. That's why I specified in some countries.

throwaways885 6y ago

Also, people tend to use 1% of the United States, not 1% of the world. It's easy to be angry if you're only looking up the totem pole.

klaudius 6y ago

They use 1% because number 1 is an integer and it can represent a whole person. This is useful for scapegoating and hatred. "The 99% vs. the 1% is the modern articulation of this classic scapegoating mechanism. It is all minus one versus the one. And it has to just be the one. 99.99 people or percent is too granular. Scapegoating 0.1 doesn’t really work. You need a whole person to play the victim. Similarly, 98-2 doesn’t quite have the same ring to it either. " Source: https://blakemasters.com/post/24578683805/peter-thiels-cs183-startup-class-18-notes https://blakemasters.com/post/24578683805/peter-thiels-cs183....

andrepd 6y ago
The "1%" slogan arose in the Occupy movement, from statistics such "1% of the people own 50% of global wealth", which such an inexcusable level of inequality. Ah but no, they are the victims, poor them.

bluecalm 6y ago

There are a lot of people making 360k+ with effort. You most likely need to be talented and have very good work ethic (rare combination) and then focus on right industry. Big trading firms, programming if you're very good or not that good but not risk averse and willing to take shots to start businesses. Of course not everyone can get there, it's 1% after all but you don't need to be born into it or one in a million genius.

tjs8rj 6y ago

Keep in mind the level of churn. An implicit bias easy to make is forgetting that these are percentiles, not people, and most people move through different percentiles at different times in their life. 11% of Americans will be in the 1% for at least 1 year in their life, 39% will be in the top 10% at some point, 61% in the top 20%[1][2]. 94% of those in the top 1% fall out in a year, 99% within a decade[1]. In other words: being a 1%er is a very transient title for the vast majority of even the rich who make it there. [1]: https://www.cato.org/blog/high-turnover-among-americas-rich https://www.cato.org/blog/high-turnover-among-americas-rich [2]: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most-americans-make-it-to-the-top-20-percent-at-least-for-a-while https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/05/308380342/most...

snypher 6y ago
>11% of Americans will be in the 1% for at least 1 year in their life 11% of Americans will make over $500k a year, or have $12M in assets, for one year? This cannot possibly be true. Oh, Cato Institute? Say no more.
- pseudo0 6y ago
  Is 11% earning $500k for at least one year really that surprising? For example, a mom and pop small business selling their store in order to retire could qualify for one year, but that money would likely be the bulk of their retirement savings. It's probably not a useful metric though, if most of those people break $500k due to one-off lump sum payments.
- tjs8rj 6y ago
  The npr source said 5% of Americans will be in the 1% for 2 consecutive years, so the Cato numbers aren’t far from what you might expect.
bumby 6y ago
What matters more, I believe, is wealth rather than income. It’s been awhile since I’ve read it, but The Meritocracy Trap outlines the case that wealth can be less transitory.