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I get the outrage, but I also understand where the problem originates in terms of Apple's use of the T2 chip. To maintain the security of the T2, which is tied
by rswail 6y ago
I get the outrage, but I also understand where the problem originates in terms of Apple's use of the T2 chip.
To maintain the security of the T2, which is tied to the encryption of the SSD, the SSD is bound to the T2 in a non-reversible way.
So when you change the SSD, you have to rebind it with the T2. This is not a "field supported" operation of the T2 standalone, so requires the use of a secure path via Apple Configurator, with, I assume, a tunnel back to Apple's RA equivalent.
Should they make this a function of the T2 that is available in the field standalone? Absolutely.
Why haven't they? I can think of any number of reasons, some nefarious (the "remove right to repair") side of things, but, more likely, you don't muck around with a security chip too often or without a real need.
- PaulHoule 6y agoI just heard Lenovo is locking server chips to the motherbord now which is a similar story: you know that major chips on the board are authentic but when somebody tries to recycle the cpu later it doesn't work.
- api 6y agoIt's really hard to design secure systems that do not harm convenience, serviceability, etc., since someone trying to compromise the system is... "servicing" it.
- Nexxxeh 6y agoNot sure if it's the specific thing you're thinking of, but AMD EPYC chips can be vendor locked and Dell EMC does this. They blow eFuses in the CPU so they'll only work with Dell motherboards with the correct code signature. https://www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-for-enhanced-security-at-a-cost/ https://www.servethehome.com/amd-psb-vendor-locks-epyc-cpus-...
- PaulHoule 6y agoYes it is. Lenovo and Dell both do it.
- est31 6y agoFor such maintenance operations, you could support a mode where a barebones OS is copied into RAM. Then you can remove any SSD you want.
- Someone 6y agoDo SSDs support hot plugging? Can you unplug them from a Mac Pro without removing power from the system? Even if they do, I wouldn’t expect anybody to test that enough to make it absolutely reliable.
- dahfizz 6y agoI don't know about the Mac hardware specifically, but SSDs can be hotplugged in linux boxes. If your sata controller doesn't support hotplugging, you will have to reboot for the block device to be accessible but that does not seem like an insurmountable problem in this case. Hotplugging is also a pretty basic feature for such an expensive computer.
- enragedcacti 6y agoThe SSDs in this case are M.2 NVME which is a PCIe-based standard. I have no clue if the M.2 or NVME standards address hotplugging but PCIe based hotplug is almost never a thing on consumer hardware iirc.
- kalleboo 6y agoIsn't Thunderbolt basically hotplug PCIe? I wonder if hotplug M.2 NVMe requires any kind of special hardware or if it's pure software.
- Laforet 6y agoAt minimum you need to have a special connector like USB in which data lines are disconnected before the power lines. Or a dedicaed pair of cables to detect the link state. Both will of course require additional support at both software and hardware level. The DVI interface supported hot plugging in theory but I've seen many cases of monitors not working without a full restart.
- washadjeffmad 6y agoApple is assuming all supported repairs and replacements are being performed by an AASP, where external troubleshooting is the norm. Perhaps someone could tell us what the order would look like in GSX?
- EricE 6y ago>Apple is assuming all supported repairs and replacements are being performed by an AASP, where external troubleshooting is the norm. If that were the case they wouldn't have published the technote publicly using software they also freely make available (Apple Configurator). Having more than one Mac is hardly something novel, and even if you don't have a second of your own how many Mac owners don't know someone with a Mac they could borrow for 10 minutes to do the pairing? Would it be nice if the firmware for the Mac Pro could do this without needing a second computer? Sure. Is it a hardship warranting this level of scrutiny? Seems a bit overblown to me.
- washadjeffmad 6y agoThis isn't apologism, but at least Apple provided a way for customers to fix this and a plethora of other issues without strictly needing an AASP. We frequently have to revive T2 Macs whose batteries won't charge, and the only way to do that in the not too distant past was to ship it off for a logic board replacement. Telling customers they can fix things themselves means the 10% of people who want to on their own now can, but it's already negated a turnaround of 1-3 months for Apple repairs sent to facilities that are being impacted by covid-19. It's safe to suspect myriad causes.
- grishka 6y agoSecurity chips shouldn't be black boxes in the first place.
- henryackerman 6y agoAgreed, what's going on should be completely transparent. The security of the system must only depend on the private keys and implementation correctness.
- Cthulhu_ 6y agoWhile security by obscurity is not ideal, it is an additional hurdle. Apple knows that security flaws in their stuff is very valuable for both nefarious and state hackers, so the chances of someone finding an issue and reporting it to them to resolve it are kinda low.
- TimTheTinker 6y agoNot if the bounty is high enough and payable to an anonymous recipient (perhaps vis cryptocurrency).
- vulcan01 6y agoI don't think state-affiliated hackers really care about money.
- TimTheTinker 6y agoGood point, though I imagine a large bounty payable to an anonymous bitcoin address could encourage individuals within such an organization to divulge vuln info.
- madeofpalk 6y agoIt being a black box seems to be a seperate unrelated issue?
- croutonwagon 6y agoSo what happens if the SSD goes bad or refuses to mount....you have a mult-thousand dollar brick because of a hundred dollar part? I assume you can recover from corruption...but what if its a hardware defect.
- jhanschoo 6y agoNo, you can swap the SSD, you just have to have another Mac on hand to reset the security chip and encrypt and install into your new SSDs.
- croutonwagon 6y agoAnd if you don’t have one? I have exactly one Mac in my house. I also have linux and windows in various forms. But only one Mac. And the nearest “Genius Bar” is 200 miles away with only affiliate repairs (or whatever they call them) locally.
- jhanschoo 6y agoThen you have a machine that's unusable until you find one, but it's not bricked (which means that the hardware is irreversibly unusable).
- croutonwagon 6y ago>(which means that the hardware is irreversibly unusable). In my case that would in effect be a distinction without a difference...