5 ms·

BitClout is a scam, change my mind

28 points by rukshn 6y ago

alexmingoia 6y ago
A scam involves deception. BitClout does not deceive users about how it works. Therefor, BitClout is not a scam.
- rukshn 6y ago
  Isn’t creating profiles that are not real deceptive? Your details, pictures are used to create a profile. This is one aspect that comes to my mind being deceptive.
  - delaaxe 6y ago
    No, the website makes it very clear that those are reserved, unclaimed profiles. They can also removed be removed on creator demand.
    - benwad 6y ago
      I just went on the site. The 'top' profiles include usernames like `elonmusk`, `loganpaul` and `arianagrande`, next to an icon saying they're "waiting to join". This sounds like a lie right? Unless there's such demand for this site that Elon Musk and Ariana Grande are waiting in a queue to get in on the BitClout action?
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        That sounds like you're reading "waiting to join" backwards?
      - koolhaas 6y ago
        Exactly — “waiting to join” would be a lie if Elon Musk did not initiate intention to join the service. And Elon Musk does not wait in lines... It’s eye rolling deceitful marketing.
    - smohare 6y ago
      “Reserved, unclaimed” is a classic dark pattern.
prox 6y ago
First question is already not correct by the expert. Afaik the value of the USD depends on the GDP / economic output of the country. Money -exchange- can be tied to the other person accepting your value token or not.
- rukshn 6y ago
  Exactly that was what I thought, GDP should back the currency right? But I’m not an economist to know the answer
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    I kind of doubt it. Because China has the second largest GDP, and it is quite comparable to US. But Chinese Yuan is basically worthless outside of China. Almost all international trade, even when involving China, is done in USD. So definitely there has to be some other factor apart from GDP which gives value to a currency.
    - rukshn 6y ago
      But isn’t there a static exchange rate right between Yuan and USD according to economy inflation or GDP? Or proof of work for Bitcoin, so what backs bitclout?
    - IndySun 6y ago
      >Almost all international trade, even when involving China, is done in USD. What will happen to US and world economic trade when this is reversed?
      - perryizgr8 6y ago
        Then we go to war. - USA, probably
  - RobertoG 6y ago
    In a first approximation, what back the currency is that it's accepted to buy things that are denominated in Dollars. But in a deeper sense, what back the currency is that it's the only currency accepted by the USA government to pay taxes and other liabilities (1). If tomorrow, people decided they not want to use Dollars, they would still have to get Dollars in order to pay their taxes, that would grant demand for Dollars. (1) - https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/05/taxes-mmt-approach.html https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/05/taxes-mmt-approa...
sawmurai 6y ago
Guilty until proven innocent? ;)
delaaxe 6y ago
Author seems to think creator coin price is tied to some magical measure of a person’s influence. It’s not. Price goes up when people buy the coin and price goes down when people sell it, that’s it.
- gammalost 6y ago
  >Creator coins are a new type of asset class that is tied to the reputation of an individual, rather than to a company or commodity. They are truly the first tool we have as a society to trade “social clout” as an asset. If people understand this, then the value of someone’s coin should be correlated to that person’s standing in society. For example, if Elon Musk succeeds in landing the first person on Mars, his coin price should theoretically go up. And if, in contrast, he makes a racial slur during a press conference, his coin price should theoretically go down.[0] Author is kind of right if you go by what their site says. [0]https://bitclout.com/one_pager.pdf https://bitclout.com/one_pager.pdf
cinbun8 6y ago
> If there is a scammer like an inventor who is doing a scheme similar to Theranos. They will have influence, and the wealth to back a BitClout currency, and once the scheme is busted the values will become zero. You'll need to argue that busting the scam actually reduces their influence. Anna Sorokin got a 300k deal with Netflix right after getting out of prison. If she writes a book I'm sure there are some people that would be willing to buy it. Has the scam really destroyed her influence? The OP also does not go on to make a case for WHY they think this is a scam. A sales person not answering your question does not make the company scammy.
- rukshn 6y ago
  OP here, yes true it's not a scam until proven otherwise, but there some shady practices surrounding it. Also going back to Theranos, even though people thought it was a scam, it took several months/years to prove it conclusively that it was truly a scam
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    Shady practices you say? Maybe you should have written more about that..
anonymoushn 6y ago
The whitepaper claims that BitClout is a distributed database and anybody can run a node, but there's no public software that lets someone do that.
gvv 6y ago
"Everything I don't understand or trust is a scam" - The post
ccortes 6y ago
You mean the thing Elon musk constantly does?
punnerud 6y ago
To easier take “notes” ClubHouse you can record the screen on the iPhone, this will also capture the sound if you use the loudspeaker or AirPods. I EU you don’t have to inform that you are recording, as long as you don’t share the recording with anyone (only for you to listen to later)
imwillofficial 6y ago
What a terribly written article. I know nothing of BitClout or Clubhouse. Author claims “I don’t know how these things work.” Then proceeds to deride them using a straw man “expert” who he paraphrases, can’t even be bothered to quote. I’ve read more insightful commentary on truck stop bathroom walls. Now, will somebody tell me what bitclout is, and can I have some?
kristianc 6y ago
It sounds almost identical to a platform which went bust in the UK recently, FootballIndex, which allowed you to buy ‘shares’ in soccer players, with the promise of a dividend paid out over a number of years. You could also in theory sell the share to other people. What happened is that the platform became almost completely reliant on new customers joining to pay out the old. If you’re thinking, well that sounds a lot like a Ponzi scheme, you’d be right. When COVID hit snd football games were cancelled, ‘investors’ withdrew their money to spend on other things and the stream of new customers died out completely. The platform collapsed snd nearly everyone lost their money. Won’t be going near it, and the fact that Clubhouse has been so quickly completely overrun by MLM hucksters who use it to pump each other’s products is a big strike against that platform for me too.

28 points by rukshn 6y ago

alexmingoia 6y ago

A scam involves deception. BitClout does not deceive users about how it works. Therefor, BitClout is not a scam.

rukshn 6y ago
Isn’t creating profiles that are not real deceptive? Your details, pictures are used to create a profile. This is one aspect that comes to my mind being deceptive.
- delaaxe 6y ago
  No, the website makes it very clear that those are reserved, unclaimed profiles. They can also removed be removed on creator demand.
  - benwad 6y ago
    I just went on the site. The 'top' profiles include usernames like `elonmusk`, `loganpaul` and `arianagrande`, next to an icon saying they're "waiting to join". This sounds like a lie right? Unless there's such demand for this site that Elon Musk and Ariana Grande are waiting in a queue to get in on the BitClout action?
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      That sounds like you're reading "waiting to join" backwards?
    - koolhaas 6y ago
      Exactly — “waiting to join” would be a lie if Elon Musk did not initiate intention to join the service. And Elon Musk does not wait in lines... It’s eye rolling deceitful marketing.
  - smohare 6y ago
    “Reserved, unclaimed” is a classic dark pattern.

prox 6y ago

First question is already not correct by the expert. Afaik the value of the USD depends on the GDP / economic output of the country. Money -exchange- can be tied to the other person accepting your value token or not.

rukshn 6y ago
Exactly that was what I thought, GDP should back the currency right? But I’m not an economist to know the answer
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  I kind of doubt it. Because China has the second largest GDP, and it is quite comparable to US. But Chinese Yuan is basically worthless outside of China. Almost all international trade, even when involving China, is done in USD. So definitely there has to be some other factor apart from GDP which gives value to a currency.
  - rukshn 6y ago
    But isn’t there a static exchange rate right between Yuan and USD according to economy inflation or GDP? Or proof of work for Bitcoin, so what backs bitclout?
  - IndySun 6y ago
    >Almost all international trade, even when involving China, is done in USD. What will happen to US and world economic trade when this is reversed?
    - perryizgr8 6y ago
      Then we go to war. - USA, probably
- RobertoG 6y ago
  In a first approximation, what back the currency is that it's accepted to buy things that are denominated in Dollars. But in a deeper sense, what back the currency is that it's the only currency accepted by the USA government to pay taxes and other liabilities (1). If tomorrow, people decided they not want to use Dollars, they would still have to get Dollars in order to pay their taxes, that would grant demand for Dollars. (1) - https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/05/taxes-mmt-approach.html https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/05/taxes-mmt-approa...

sawmurai 6y ago

Guilty until proven innocent? ;)

delaaxe 6y ago

Author seems to think creator coin price is tied to some magical measure of a person’s influence. It’s not. Price goes up when people buy the coin and price goes down when people sell it, that’s it.

gammalost 6y ago
>Creator coins are a new type of asset class that is tied to the reputation of an individual, rather than to a company or commodity. They are truly the first tool we have as a society to trade “social clout” as an asset. If people understand this, then the value of someone’s coin should be correlated to that person’s standing in society. For example, if Elon Musk succeeds in landing the first person on Mars, his coin price should theoretically go up. And if, in contrast, he makes a racial slur during a press conference, his coin price should theoretically go down.[0] Author is kind of right if you go by what their site says. [0]https://bitclout.com/one_pager.pdf https://bitclout.com/one_pager.pdf

cinbun8 6y ago

> If there is a scammer like an inventor who is doing a scheme similar to Theranos. They will have influence, and the wealth to back a BitClout currency, and once the scheme is busted the values will become zero. You'll need to argue that busting the scam actually reduces their influence. Anna Sorokin got a 300k deal with Netflix right after getting out of prison. If she writes a book I'm sure there are some people that would be willing to buy it. Has the scam really destroyed her influence? The OP also does not go on to make a case for WHY they think this is a scam. A sales person not answering your question does not make the company scammy.

rukshn 6y ago
OP here, yes true it's not a scam until proven otherwise, but there some shady practices surrounding it. Also going back to Theranos, even though people thought it was a scam, it took several months/years to prove it conclusively that it was truly a scam
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  Shady practices you say? Maybe you should have written more about that..

anonymoushn 6y ago

The whitepaper claims that BitClout is a distributed database and anybody can run a node, but there's no public software that lets someone do that.

gvv 6y ago

"Everything I don't understand or trust is a scam" - The post

ccortes 6y ago

You mean the thing Elon musk constantly does?

punnerud 6y ago

To easier take “notes” ClubHouse you can record the screen on the iPhone, this will also capture the sound if you use the loudspeaker or AirPods. I EU you don’t have to inform that you are recording, as long as you don’t share the recording with anyone (only for you to listen to later)

imwillofficial 6y ago

What a terribly written article. I know nothing of BitClout or Clubhouse. Author claims “I don’t know how these things work.” Then proceeds to deride them using a straw man “expert” who he paraphrases, can’t even be bothered to quote. I’ve read more insightful commentary on truck stop bathroom walls. Now, will somebody tell me what bitclout is, and can I have some?

kristianc 6y ago

It sounds almost identical to a platform which went bust in the UK recently, FootballIndex, which allowed you to buy ‘shares’ in soccer players, with the promise of a dividend paid out over a number of years. You could also in theory sell the share to other people. What happened is that the platform became almost completely reliant on new customers joining to pay out the old. If you’re thinking, well that sounds a lot like a Ponzi scheme, you’d be right. When COVID hit snd football games were cancelled, ‘investors’ withdrew their money to spend on other things and the stream of new customers died out completely. The platform collapsed snd nearly everyone lost their money. Won’t be going near it, and the fact that Clubhouse has been so quickly completely overrun by MLM hucksters who use it to pump each other’s products is a big strike against that platform for me too.