5 ms·

Vitamin D: The truth about an alleged Covid ‘cover-up’

39 points by rainhacker 6y ago

vfclists 6y ago
The silence of the corporate media on Ivermectin is so deafening. Dear BBC how about a mention of Ivermectin from you. We await with bated breath.
- dekerta 6y ago
  Maybe because the FDA says taking it is a bad idea https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul...
  - eloff 6y ago
    They're just saying they have not approved it for that use, which doesn't mean much because they also haven't considered it. They also say don't take animal ivermectin, which should really go without saying, but people are doing it anyway. A dose that's good for a horse is not necessarily a good idea for a human. Unless maybe you're Eddie the Beast.
  - vfclists 6y ago
    Are you sure it isn't down to regulatory capture by the US pharmaceutical industry? You can see how nonsensical their comments are in relation to using horse formulations, forgetting that in many countries around the world it is so safe that it is available over the counter. It surely can't be be more dangerous than Advil or cough syrup. Have they forgotten doctors in the US actually prescribe it for Covid? Apparently many people in the US and the UK haven't cottoned on to why their death rates are so high. They seem too stupid to realize that if the cure for an illness is to stay at home without treatment until the symptoms become bad enough to warrant admission to hospital more people will suffer injury and may possibly die as a result. FWIW it is primarily the UK and US where that notion persists. Go elsewhere around the world and tell the people that the "treatment" for Covid is staying at home without treatment until symptoms become too hard to bear, and they will look at you as though you are fool, which indeed you are if that is what you believe. If you think I'm insulting the British and Americans, listen to this from an American doctor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM After watching it take the time to consider how many Americans and British have died needlessly as a result of unthinking acceptance of statements made by the countries health authorities.
thelean12 6y ago
My problem with vitamins and supplements is that the vast majority of people who take them are self-diagnosing a deficiency or listening to random people on the internet who think they're able to parse studies on their own. For anything: go to your doctor, get blood work done, and listen to their advice. Don't just go to CVS and pick up some pills and go to town after reading about Vitamin D on HN.
frankus 6y ago
Related post by Scott Alexander: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/covidvitamin-d-much-more-than-you https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/covidvitamin-d-much-mo...
- cj 6y ago
  This quote from the article you linked to sums up my viewpoint well: > If it does prevent or cure coronavirus, great. If not, the worst that will happen is you'll have slightly better bone health. Taking Vitamin D daily is like taking Vitamin C daily. Who knows if it actually helps, but we know it doesn’t hurt, so why not. Edit: (as mentioned by commenters below, obviously don’t swallow more than the recommended dose on the bottle)
  - wunderflix 6y ago
    There is a doctor on HN who frequently writes about how bad overdosing Vitamin D can be. So I’d be careful on the dosage at least.
    - llovan 6y ago
      I get extreme migraines if I take it every day for more than a week. For me, eating Vitamin D fortified foods and sunlight seems to be more than enough.
  - wang_li 6y ago
    Vitamin C is water soluble, excess is excreted in your urine. Vitamin D is fat soluble. If you take more than your body can use it builds up inside you. It can cause problems if too much accumulates.
    - pbak 6y ago
      What kind of problems, in what kind of circumstances ?
      - 6y ago
nojokes 6y ago
From the mentioned list, latest research (5 independent double-blinded studies) suggests that Ivermectin really has antiviral properties against SARS-COV-2 (in vivo of course). What has been also suggested to have been neglected is role of Zinc in COVID-19 treatment. Btw usual dosage I have taken Vitamin D has been 25000 U.I. (625 μg) once in a week but I have also taken 100000 U.I. (2500 μg if I understand the conversion correctly) dosages when my Vitamin D level has been very low. All prescribed by my doctor. You have to consult yours before you start taking anything in large dosages. The conclusion appears to be right. Anti-vaxxer and anti-mask people tend to have considerable overlap. Many of them also believe in some PCR tests related conspiracy.
- tcoff91 6y ago
  I think you probably mean IU not mg
  - amelius 6y ago
    Yes. Can somebody explain why IU units are being used for vitamin D and why they are to be preferred over standard units like mg and mcg?
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Or mcg (microgram, 40 IU) at the very outside.
  - nojokes 6y ago
    You are right. I remembered that it was mg. I edited my post and did the conversion according to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_unit Vitamin D: The biological activity of 40 IU is equal to 1 μg[9]
- hivacruz 6y ago
  Isn't it better to take Vitamin D pills every day as a cure in winter for example instead of big boost with 100 000 UI? I don't recall exactly where I read this but I remember that the level of Vitamin D quickly decrease after this kind of takes. In my case, I try to eat lunch with the sun on me for at least 15 minutes and I take a 5mg pill when I can't. I don't know if it's enough.
dionian 6y ago
> Vitamin D is relatively safe (although few medical interventions are entirely risk-free, especially at high doses) so it may not appear to be the most harmful of misinformation. it's shocking that journalists are calling anything which isnt proven fully proven or universally accepted 'misinformation', when it very likely could have a beneficial effect with basically 0 downside. this is extremely dangerous and highly Orwellian.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- floatrock 6y ago
  But this article isn't doing that. It's pointing out that early research with extraordinary results get shared widely (especially when the results line up with an existing preconception, outlook, or agenda), and then when the claims are investigated in more detail and start to fall apart under rigorous scrutiny, the counterfactual doesn't get shared as widely because it goes against those preconceptions, outlooks, or agendas. Also, vitamin D isn't 0 downside. Elevated levels can cause calcium buildup and kidney stones.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - thelittlenag 6y ago
    Can confirm. Doctor recommended that I start taking Vitamin D daily after a physical a few years back. On their advice, I purchased a bottle at the doctor's recommend dosage level and started taking pills daily. Within a week I stopped because I could already feel pain in my kidneys. Having had a kidney stone before, and having had to pass one (thankfully small) one, I immediately stopped taking the Vitamin D since that the only lifestyle change I had made. Things subsided after that. Should I need to take Vitamin D in the future I will be starting at a VERY SMALL dose and slowly working up. Kidney stones suck.
    - subsubzero 6y ago
bananapear 6y ago
A list of vitamin D/Covid studies - https://vdmeta.com/ https://vdmeta.com/
CoolGuySteve 6y ago
A few years ago I got sick a lot and even got shingles. A blood test showed I was extremely vitamin D deficient so I've been supplementing ever since. So like Stuart Smalley, while I'm not a doctor, I have read a lot about it due to my own health problems. The long and the short of it is that vitamin D is a hormone that takes weeks of supplementation to build up to sufficient levels. This hormone is instrumental in having a functional immune system. With regards to covid, severity seems to depend on immune system response. So it's not unreasonable to think vitamin D is necessary but not singularly sufficient to prevent severe covid.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  This is my understanding as a layperson who has looked into this a bit: If you look into the bradykinin hypothesis of action for Covid-19, you'll find that vitamin D and its metabolites are directly implicated in the network of effects Covid-19 has on your cellular functions. In particular, Covid-19 seems to severely down-regulate expression of certain genes, so that you would seem to be more vitamin D deficient than you would be otherwise! https://youtu.be/DZuCrwYa80s?t=169 https://youtu.be/DZuCrwYa80s?t=169 That's from several months ago, so maybe this isn't current research anymore.
- kjrose 6y ago
  Absolutely. Living in Alberta which is very far north, I've seen what can happen if you don't take proper vitamin d supplements regularly. Almost everyone I know is on a very high regular dosage of vitamin d over the winter and a lighter regimen over the summer. With regards to covis I'd believe that vitamin d deficiency would likely lead to a pathway response that is significantly weaker. However I would not expect someone who OD's on vitamin d pills to be suddenly healthy. More I'd expect people who don't have a decent vitamin d level to have a weaker immune system and thus naturally succumb to it more.
  - deepsun 6y ago
    How people lived for thousands years at the same latitudes?
loveistheanswer 6y ago
When corporations censor people expressing skepticism of corporate profit motives, are they not helping to reinforce those beliefs?
subsubzero 6y ago
I feel like you can be in both camps(not anti vax, but pro vitamin D) and still be right, I am. I am about to get the 2nd pfizer vaccine shot and supplement daily with vitamin D. I have had lower levels years ago and would get extremely sick during the winter/spring. I started taking 3000IU daily and it has had a dramatic affect on my health. Colds are less severe and the duration is shorter. I had my vit. D levels tested and was still a bit off optimal, this after running in the middle of the day during winter, eating meat almost daily and my previously mentioned vit. D doses. The reality is most everyone is probably not getting enough vitamin D and only a visit and a blood test from your Dr. will tell you for sure.
ryandrake 6y ago
The pandemic has laid bare the general public’s appalling inability to deal with ambiguity and rapidly changing scientific consensus. So many people expect there to be only One True Truth, and the first person to make a statement about something is expected to deliver that Single True Truth. Then, when the situation on the ground changes, and a new recommendation gets made, these people’s brains explode and they can’t understand facts having to change with new information. When the very first person said “Vitamin D helps” and “Hydroxychloroquine is a miracle cure” and “masks don’t work”, that became the red letter, unchangeable, holy truth to the masses. When new info made the recommendation a change, brains exploded, and half of them said “That first person was a LIAR! Conspiracy!” and the other half said “We can’t trust anyone! They’re always changing the truth!” Flip flopping is the ultimate sin. If you’re going to be a prophet of science, you need to say one gospel truth and never change your mind.
- chmod600 6y ago
  When they said "masks don't work", that was a lie. It was an obvious lie. Would you rather a sick person coughs and sneezes on you (a) with a mask; or (b) maybe on their hand or elbow if they react fast enough?
  - postalrat 6y ago
    The more important question is would you trust the mask the sick person is wearing is protecting you if you are standing near that person.
    - ergocoder 6y ago
      Comparing to a sick person who doesn't wear mask? Yes, a sick person wearing bad mask is still better.
    - chmod600 6y ago
      Why is that the most important question? To me, the fact that experts are lying to me is more important. I like science. I wish I could trust it to be presented honestly and fairly. But I can't, so I have to fill in some gaps, do some sanity checks, and read a few studies. That doesn't make me an expert, but it's the best I can do with limited time in a dishonest environment.
chmod600 6y ago
The problem is this: if you ask a doctor, they will tell you "of course you shouldn't be deficient; get tested and supplement if necessary". But lots of people are deficient because of modern lifestyles and won't bother with the test. So the better advice is that most people should supplement based on a few simple criteria. Why aren't public health officials saying that? It's ridiculous to go through a pandemic with the same old useless advice. And if you push vitamin D, now you're a conspiracy theorist. Just take vitamin D in reasonable and get tested occasionally. Stop if you are on the high side.
taxicabjesus 6y ago
People need adequate sunlight. Sometimes people can't make Vitamin-D from the sun, and need a Vitamin-D supplement instead. I think it's rather dishonest to treat those who are Vitamin-D deficient as if their Vitamin-D deficiency isn't actually a core aspect of their health problem. > But governments have taken up other cheap, effective treatments like dexamethasone, once proven. There seems to be a lack of interest in finding non-vaccine treatments by the medical Gatekeepers. The gist I get from many people is that 'none of the repurposed drugs that've been looked at actually help, vaccines are the only way out of this mess.' But what if a "cheap, effective treatment" was out there, but was not widely deployed on account of good experiences with repurposed drugs/etc not receiving coverage from the medical hierarchy? I've read that the core problem of finding a cheap, effective treatment for COVID-19 is that the emergency use authorization for the vaccines would have to be pulled: During a public health emergency, the FDA can use its Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) authority to allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products, to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases when certain criteria are met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. - https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-emergency-use-authorizations-medical-devices/faqs-emergency-use-authorizations-euas-medical-devices-during-covid-19-pandemic https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019... Remdesivir is also being used for COVID-19 on an EUA: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2020/EUA%20Review%20Remdesivir_050120.pdf https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2020/EUA%... (Remdesivir is not an approved drug for any other condition, it's a failed ebola drug. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir#Medical_uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir#Medical_uses ) Some doctors have found that the anti-serotonin drug Cyproheptadine (approved and in use everywhere as an antihistamine) is almost a magic bullet for severe cases of COVID-19. One of these is Farid Jalali, M.D., who makes the case that severe COVID-19 is a serotonin syndrome without the usual drug trigger. "An ideal scenario to prevent the hyperserotonergic multi-organ failure that is inherent to severe COVID19 would be a combination of reducing pool of bioavailable serotonin (early SSRI) combined with, if severe disease occurs, a direct serotonin antagonist (cyproheptadine)" [0] https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1350149930954878976 https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1350149930954878976 "I can personally attest to the gatekeeping being fueled by greed (pharma) and arrogance (“thought leaders”). We barely squeezed heparin and steroids in there due to sheer brute force against above gatekeeping." [1] https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1377669778794418176 https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1377669778794418176 "The more I see how things go, the more I feel like the whole "RCT-only-science" is a gatekeeping attempt, truly reflecting "we-are-the-only-ones-who-can-get-FDA/NHS/HealthCanada-to-let-us-run-the-RCT" The whole fucking game is rigged folks. That's why we are where we are." [2] https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1379107965060276228 https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1379107965060276228 I don't think Dr. Jalali is doing anything especially revolutionary, he's just trying his best to practice good conventional medicine, and he's fed up with "gatekeeping" keeping effective and cheap treatments from being widely used to pull COVID-19 patients out of their death spirals. I think the self-appointed gatekeepers to Science (TM) can't allow effective non-vaccine treatments to gain foothold, as that would cancel most people's motivation to get vaccinated. If the vaccines' EUA was pulled because acceptable treatments with drugs already approved for other uses became known, COVID-19 vaccines could only be re-deployed after full safety studies have been completed. This would be a disaster for the medical gatekeepers. Maybe some of you don't believe there's any dishonesty in Humanity's COVID-19 experience. I'd appreciate a comment, rather than a downvote. Thanks.

39 points by rainhacker 6y ago

The silence of the corporate media on Ivermectin is so deafening. Dear BBC how about a mention of Ivermectin from you. We await with bated breath.

dekerta 6y ago
Maybe because the FDA says taking it is a bad idea https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul...
- eloff 6y ago
  They're just saying they have not approved it for that use, which doesn't mean much because they also haven't considered it. They also say don't take animal ivermectin, which should really go without saying, but people are doing it anyway. A dose that's good for a horse is not necessarily a good idea for a human. Unless maybe you're Eddie the Beast.
- vfclists 6y ago
  Are you sure it isn't down to regulatory capture by the US pharmaceutical industry? You can see how nonsensical their comments are in relation to using horse formulations, forgetting that in many countries around the world it is so safe that it is available over the counter. It surely can't be be more dangerous than Advil or cough syrup. Have they forgotten doctors in the US actually prescribe it for Covid? Apparently many people in the US and the UK haven't cottoned on to why their death rates are so high. They seem too stupid to realize that if the cure for an illness is to stay at home without treatment until the symptoms become bad enough to warrant admission to hospital more people will suffer injury and may possibly die as a result. FWIW it is primarily the UK and US where that notion persists. Go elsewhere around the world and tell the people that the "treatment" for Covid is staying at home without treatment until symptoms become too hard to bear, and they will look at you as though you are fool, which indeed you are if that is what you believe. If you think I'm insulting the British and Americans, listen to this from an American doctor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM After watching it take the time to consider how many Americans and British have died needlessly as a result of unthinking acceptance of statements made by the countries health authorities.

thelean12 6y ago

My problem with vitamins and supplements is that the vast majority of people who take them are self-diagnosing a deficiency or listening to random people on the internet who think they're able to parse studies on their own. For anything: go to your doctor, get blood work done, and listen to their advice. Don't just go to CVS and pick up some pills and go to town after reading about Vitamin D on HN.

frankus 6y ago

Related post by Scott Alexander: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/covidvitamin-d-much-more-than-you https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/covidvitamin-d-much-mo...

cj 6y ago
This quote from the article you linked to sums up my viewpoint well: > If it does prevent or cure coronavirus, great. If not, the worst that will happen is you'll have slightly better bone health. Taking Vitamin D daily is like taking Vitamin C daily. Who knows if it actually helps, but we know it doesn’t hurt, so why not. Edit: (as mentioned by commenters below, obviously don’t swallow more than the recommended dose on the bottle)
- wunderflix 6y ago
  There is a doctor on HN who frequently writes about how bad overdosing Vitamin D can be. So I’d be careful on the dosage at least.
  - llovan 6y ago
    I get extreme migraines if I take it every day for more than a week. For me, eating Vitamin D fortified foods and sunlight seems to be more than enough.
- wang_li 6y ago
  Vitamin C is water soluble, excess is excreted in your urine. Vitamin D is fat soluble. If you take more than your body can use it builds up inside you. It can cause problems if too much accumulates.
  - pbak 6y ago
    What kind of problems, in what kind of circumstances ?
    - 6y ago

nojokes 6y ago

From the mentioned list, latest research (5 independent double-blinded studies) suggests that Ivermectin really has antiviral properties against SARS-COV-2 (in vivo of course). What has been also suggested to have been neglected is role of Zinc in COVID-19 treatment. Btw usual dosage I have taken Vitamin D has been 25000 U.I. (625 μg) once in a week but I have also taken 100000 U.I. (2500 μg if I understand the conversion correctly) dosages when my Vitamin D level has been very low. All prescribed by my doctor. You have to consult yours before you start taking anything in large dosages. The conclusion appears to be right. Anti-vaxxer and anti-mask people tend to have considerable overlap. Many of them also believe in some PCR tests related conspiracy.

tcoff91 6y ago
I think you probably mean IU not mg
- amelius 6y ago
  Yes. Can somebody explain why IU units are being used for vitamin D and why they are to be preferred over standard units like mg and mcg?
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Or mcg (microgram, 40 IU) at the very outside.
- nojokes 6y ago
  You are right. I remembered that it was mg. I edited my post and did the conversion according to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_unit Vitamin D: The biological activity of 40 IU is equal to 1 μg[9]
hivacruz 6y ago
Isn't it better to take Vitamin D pills every day as a cure in winter for example instead of big boost with 100 000 UI? I don't recall exactly where I read this but I remember that the level of Vitamin D quickly decrease after this kind of takes. In my case, I try to eat lunch with the sun on me for at least 15 minutes and I take a 5mg pill when I can't. I don't know if it's enough.

dionian 6y ago

> Vitamin D is relatively safe (although few medical interventions are entirely risk-free, especially at high doses) so it may not appear to be the most harmful of misinformation. it's shocking that journalists are calling anything which isnt proven fully proven or universally accepted 'misinformation', when it very likely could have a beneficial effect with basically 0 downside. this is extremely dangerous and highly Orwellian.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
floatrock 6y ago
But this article isn't doing that. It's pointing out that early research with extraordinary results get shared widely (especially when the results line up with an existing preconception, outlook, or agenda), and then when the claims are investigated in more detail and start to fall apart under rigorous scrutiny, the counterfactual doesn't get shared as widely because it goes against those preconceptions, outlooks, or agendas. Also, vitamin D isn't 0 downside. Elevated levels can cause calcium buildup and kidney stones.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- thelittlenag 6y ago
  Can confirm. Doctor recommended that I start taking Vitamin D daily after a physical a few years back. On their advice, I purchased a bottle at the doctor's recommend dosage level and started taking pills daily. Within a week I stopped because I could already feel pain in my kidneys. Having had a kidney stone before, and having had to pass one (thankfully small) one, I immediately stopped taking the Vitamin D since that the only lifestyle change I had made. Things subsided after that. Should I need to take Vitamin D in the future I will be starting at a VERY SMALL dose and slowly working up. Kidney stones suck.
  - subsubzero 6y ago

bananapear 6y ago

A list of vitamin D/Covid studies - https://vdmeta.com/ https://vdmeta.com/

CoolGuySteve 6y ago

A few years ago I got sick a lot and even got shingles. A blood test showed I was extremely vitamin D deficient so I've been supplementing ever since. So like Stuart Smalley, while I'm not a doctor, I have read a lot about it due to my own health problems. The long and the short of it is that vitamin D is a hormone that takes weeks of supplementation to build up to sufficient levels. This hormone is instrumental in having a functional immune system. With regards to covid, severity seems to depend on immune system response. So it's not unreasonable to think vitamin D is necessary but not singularly sufficient to prevent severe covid.

stcredzero 6y ago
This is my understanding as a layperson who has looked into this a bit: If you look into the bradykinin hypothesis of action for Covid-19, you'll find that vitamin D and its metabolites are directly implicated in the network of effects Covid-19 has on your cellular functions. In particular, Covid-19 seems to severely down-regulate expression of certain genes, so that you would seem to be more vitamin D deficient than you would be otherwise! https://youtu.be/DZuCrwYa80s?t=169 https://youtu.be/DZuCrwYa80s?t=169 That's from several months ago, so maybe this isn't current research anymore.
kjrose 6y ago
Absolutely. Living in Alberta which is very far north, I've seen what can happen if you don't take proper vitamin d supplements regularly. Almost everyone I know is on a very high regular dosage of vitamin d over the winter and a lighter regimen over the summer. With regards to covis I'd believe that vitamin d deficiency would likely lead to a pathway response that is significantly weaker. However I would not expect someone who OD's on vitamin d pills to be suddenly healthy. More I'd expect people who don't have a decent vitamin d level to have a weaker immune system and thus naturally succumb to it more.
- deepsun 6y ago
  How people lived for thousands years at the same latitudes?

loveistheanswer 6y ago

When corporations censor people expressing skepticism of corporate profit motives, are they not helping to reinforce those beliefs?

subsubzero 6y ago

I feel like you can be in both camps(not anti vax, but pro vitamin D) and still be right, I am. I am about to get the 2nd pfizer vaccine shot and supplement daily with vitamin D. I have had lower levels years ago and would get extremely sick during the winter/spring. I started taking 3000IU daily and it has had a dramatic affect on my health. Colds are less severe and the duration is shorter. I had my vit. D levels tested and was still a bit off optimal, this after running in the middle of the day during winter, eating meat almost daily and my previously mentioned vit. D doses. The reality is most everyone is probably not getting enough vitamin D and only a visit and a blood test from your Dr. will tell you for sure.

ryandrake 6y ago

The pandemic has laid bare the general public’s appalling inability to deal with ambiguity and rapidly changing scientific consensus. So many people expect there to be only One True Truth, and the first person to make a statement about something is expected to deliver that Single True Truth. Then, when the situation on the ground changes, and a new recommendation gets made, these people’s brains explode and they can’t understand facts having to change with new information. When the very first person said “Vitamin D helps” and “Hydroxychloroquine is a miracle cure” and “masks don’t work”, that became the red letter, unchangeable, holy truth to the masses. When new info made the recommendation a change, brains exploded, and half of them said “That first person was a LIAR! Conspiracy!” and the other half said “We can’t trust anyone! They’re always changing the truth!” Flip flopping is the ultimate sin. If you’re going to be a prophet of science, you need to say one gospel truth and never change your mind.

chmod600 6y ago
When they said "masks don't work", that was a lie. It was an obvious lie. Would you rather a sick person coughs and sneezes on you (a) with a mask; or (b) maybe on their hand or elbow if they react fast enough?
- postalrat 6y ago
  The more important question is would you trust the mask the sick person is wearing is protecting you if you are standing near that person.
  - ergocoder 6y ago
    Comparing to a sick person who doesn't wear mask? Yes, a sick person wearing bad mask is still better.
  - chmod600 6y ago
    Why is that the most important question? To me, the fact that experts are lying to me is more important. I like science. I wish I could trust it to be presented honestly and fairly. But I can't, so I have to fill in some gaps, do some sanity checks, and read a few studies. That doesn't make me an expert, but it's the best I can do with limited time in a dishonest environment.

chmod600 6y ago

The problem is this: if you ask a doctor, they will tell you "of course you shouldn't be deficient; get tested and supplement if necessary". But lots of people are deficient because of modern lifestyles and won't bother with the test. So the better advice is that most people should supplement based on a few simple criteria. Why aren't public health officials saying that? It's ridiculous to go through a pandemic with the same old useless advice. And if you push vitamin D, now you're a conspiracy theorist. Just take vitamin D in reasonable and get tested occasionally. Stop if you are on the high side.

taxicabjesus 6y ago

People need adequate sunlight. Sometimes people can't make Vitamin-D from the sun, and need a Vitamin-D supplement instead. I think it's rather dishonest to treat those who are Vitamin-D deficient as if their Vitamin-D deficiency isn't actually a core aspect of their health problem. > But governments have taken up other cheap, effective treatments like dexamethasone, once proven. There seems to be a lack of interest in finding non-vaccine treatments by the medical Gatekeepers. The gist I get from many people is that 'none of the repurposed drugs that've been looked at actually help, vaccines are the only way out of this mess.' But what if a "cheap, effective treatment" was out there, but was not widely deployed on account of good experiences with repurposed drugs/etc not receiving coverage from the medical hierarchy? I've read that the core problem of finding a cheap, effective treatment for COVID-19 is that the emergency use authorization for the vaccines would have to be pulled: During a public health emergency, the FDA can use its Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) authority to allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products, to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases when certain criteria are met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. - https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-emergency-use-authorizations-medical-devices/faqs-emergency-use-authorizations-euas-medical-devices-during-covid-19-pandemic https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019... Remdesivir is also being used for COVID-19 on an EUA: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2020/EUA%20Review%20Remdesivir_050120.pdf https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2020/EUA%... (Remdesivir is not an approved drug for any other condition, it's a failed ebola drug. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir#Medical_uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir#Medical_uses ) Some doctors have found that the anti-serotonin drug Cyproheptadine (approved and in use everywhere as an antihistamine) is almost a magic bullet for severe cases of COVID-19. One of these is Farid Jalali, M.D., who makes the case that severe COVID-19 is a serotonin syndrome without the usual drug trigger. "An ideal scenario to prevent the hyperserotonergic multi-organ failure that is inherent to severe COVID19 would be a combination of reducing pool of bioavailable serotonin (early SSRI) combined with, if severe disease occurs, a direct serotonin antagonist (cyproheptadine)" [0] https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1350149930954878976 https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1350149930954878976 "I can personally attest to the gatekeeping being fueled by greed (pharma) and arrogance (“thought leaders”). We barely squeezed heparin and steroids in there due to sheer brute force against above gatekeeping." [1] https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1377669778794418176 https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1377669778794418176 "The more I see how things go, the more I feel like the whole "RCT-only-science" is a gatekeeping attempt, truly reflecting "we-are-the-only-ones-who-can-get-FDA/NHS/HealthCanada-to-let-us-run-the-RCT" The whole fucking game is rigged folks. That's why we are where we are." [2] https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1379107965060276228 https://twitter.com/farid__jalali/status/1379107965060276228 I don't think Dr. Jalali is doing anything especially revolutionary, he's just trying his best to practice good conventional medicine, and he's fed up with "gatekeeping" keeping effective and cheap treatments from being widely used to pull COVID-19 patients out of their death spirals. I think the self-appointed gatekeepers to Science (TM) can't allow effective non-vaccine treatments to gain foothold, as that would cancel most people's motivation to get vaccinated. If the vaccines' EUA was pulled because acceptable treatments with drugs already approved for other uses became known, COVID-19 vaccines could only be re-deployed after full safety studies have been completed. This would be a disaster for the medical gatekeepers. Maybe some of you don't believe there's any dishonesty in Humanity's COVID-19 experience. I'd appreciate a comment, rather than a downvote. Thanks.