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> less people died due to Mao's atrocities in China than due to regular old poverty in India, despite them starting at the same spot What is the source of that

> less people died due to Mao's atrocities in China than due to regular old poverty in India, despite them starting at the same spot What is the source of that? Note also that China had deaths both from poverty and Mao dictatorship.

Nasrudith 6y ago
It is trickery with timescales. It is like saying for instance "Malaria killed more Jews than Adolf Hitler did!" ignoring that one has existed for millenia and the other didn't make it to 57.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  Poor analogy. This was a period of just under 30 years for which Mao was the supreme ruler of China.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  No, I don't. I'm specifically referring to 1950-1980.
sudosysgen 6y ago
Yes. Look at the UN death rates for India and China from 1960 to 1990. Mao definitely had deaths both from poverty and inhuman atrocities. but way less death from poverty.
- matkoniecz 6y ago
  Can you link to this statistics confirming your claims? I am quite suspicious and dubious about claim that Mao had any sort of positive effects that would balance his criminal incompetence and/or cruelty. I am willing to be convinced by good source but ...
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    I don't mean to say that Mao is morally neutral or good or anything. I mean to remind people that the vast majority of suffering and death in the world is banal, and no one cares about it, because it's business as usual. Personally, I find Mao's management to be morally bad, because one wielding such great power must be compared not to the alternative but to what they could reasonably have done (which is better). Here is the source : https://population.un.org/wpp/Download/Standard/Population/ https://population.un.org/wpp/Download/Standard/Population/ For a more concise analysis : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jNJxQNxQKd3MbtAzn2JiB96AwGCH87bbbd3okJ5D7s0/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jNJxQNxQKd3MbtAzn2Ji... As you can see, the death rate in China was consistently lower than in India, and while it got close during the "Great Leap Forwards", China pulled ahead even farther once it was completed.

Nasrudith 6y ago

It is trickery with timescales. It is like saying for instance "Malaria killed more Jews than Adolf Hitler did!" ignoring that one has existed for millenia and the other didn't make it to 57.

Dirlewanger 6y ago
Poor analogy. This was a period of just under 30 years for which Mao was the supreme ruler of China.
sudosysgen 6y ago
No, I don't. I'm specifically referring to 1950-1980.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Yes. Look at the UN death rates for India and China from 1960 to 1990. Mao definitely had deaths both from poverty and inhuman atrocities. but way less death from poverty.

matkoniecz 6y ago
Can you link to this statistics confirming your claims? I am quite suspicious and dubious about claim that Mao had any sort of positive effects that would balance his criminal incompetence and/or cruelty. I am willing to be convinced by good source but ...
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  I don't mean to say that Mao is morally neutral or good or anything. I mean to remind people that the vast majority of suffering and death in the world is banal, and no one cares about it, because it's business as usual. Personally, I find Mao's management to be morally bad, because one wielding such great power must be compared not to the alternative but to what they could reasonably have done (which is better). Here is the source : https://population.un.org/wpp/Download/Standard/Population/ https://population.un.org/wpp/Download/Standard/Population/ For a more concise analysis : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jNJxQNxQKd3MbtAzn2JiB96AwGCH87bbbd3okJ5D7s0/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jNJxQNxQKd3MbtAzn2Ji... As you can see, the death rate in China was consistently lower than in India, and while it got close during the "Great Leap Forwards", China pulled ahead even farther once it was completed.