6 ms·

Diamonds Suck (2006)

51 points by brink 6y ago

thedanbob 6y ago
I checked out moissanite when shopping for an engagement ring but I found even that to be too expensive for my (and more importantly, my future wife's) taste. I went with cubic zirconia, it looks great, maybe not as durable as diamond or moisannite but if it gets damaged I can replace it for $50-100.
- everdrive 6y ago
  Yep, and it's much likelier that a diamond (or any other stone) is lost, rather than damaged.
  - seanc 6y ago
    Indeed. Came here to say that over several decades the risk of losing a diamond is non-trivial. It's not even a matter of losing the ring; sometimes the ring setting can fail and the stone simply falls out.
Arete314159 6y ago
I was fortunate enough to inherit a few pieces of diamond jewelry. Imagine my surprise when I went to try to sell it! It's not uncommon to only be able to sell something for 1/3 of the appraisal value. When it came time to get married, I did not want a diamond ring.
CodesInChaos 6y ago
That 1982 Atlantic article "Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?" is a great read. The link in the article is dead, but it can now be found at: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-yo...
paulgb 6y ago
Diamond alternatives are fine, but another option is just not getting a ring. My wife and I decided not to and nobody really cares. We spent the money on travel instead, and the memories are more valuable to us than a tiny rock. Don’t get me wrong, diamonds and other gems are beautiful and if you want one, go for it. But if it’s not something that is worth $5-10k to you, just know that it’s a choice, not an obligation.
- blacktriangle 6y ago
  Or just don't blow a ton on rings? My wife and I spent roughly $200 each on rings. Or even just buy some of those silicon rings that are roughly $50. I really like wearing a wedding ring, but not being attached to any one ring that I'm worried about losing or damaging is nice too. Also like you say gems other than diamonds are nice. I'm seeing many more engagement rings recently that are opting for different stones as well.
  - thedanbob 6y ago
    I splurged a bit on my wife's rings but absolutely didn't care about mine. I have two $30 tungsten carbide rings from Amazon, one I wear daily and a nicer one for special occasions.
  - intrasight 6y ago
    Is women giving men an engagement ring a new thing? I got my wife (30 years ago) a ring with two opals and a center sapphire - custom made by a local jeweler. It makes diamond rings look pretty boring.
    - eqvinox 6y ago
      As an unmarried mid-30 male, I absolutely plan on getting myself a nice jeweled ring. I like shiny things ;). I also like weird rare metals (seems to be a common thing among the HN crowd), my current favorite is Rhenium, but I'm wary of medical considerations (the "can't get it off in an emergency" kind, not the allergy kind.) It does seem to be a generational difference to some degree. FWIW I just don't give a f*ck anymore about conventions. P.S.: Absolutely agree on plain diamond rings being boring & giving it a personal touch. I mean, how is a diamond ring special to our relationship?
kop316 6y ago
I'll add my name to the list of folks who did not get a dianmond, but a Moissanite ring. A couple of things I learned along the way: - I bought the ring and the Moissenite seperately. I bought the ring at a regular jewelry store (my spouse found one she liked). It is a very HARD sell when you buy the ring to also get the diamond. I ended up buying the ring online to pick it up, and I have wondered since then if they would have refused to sell me the ring if I tried to buy it in store without a diamond. - I bought the moissanite online. It was nice seeing a linear increase in price on size versus an exponential price difference. - When I took the moissanite to a jewelry store to get it mounted, the "fake" diamond detector actually said the moissanite was a diamond! I was actually very surprised to see that, and I was candid in the fact that I brought them a moissanite. (which leads to my following point....) - Many jewelry stores do not want to touch moissanites. As soon as the jewelry store found out I bought them a moissanite, they said they cannot do anything with it. I ended up bringing the ring and moissanite to a store that deals in moissanites. My spouse likes her ring, and absolutely no one has been able to tell the difference. The closest I have seen is commenting on how "flawless" it looks, and the "diamond" must have cost a lot due to it looking flawless.
- vel0city 6y ago
  My spouse and I have had similar experiences with people remarking on the stone. Its funny how they think it must be so fancy, being quite large and flawless and shiny. Then when we tell them its actually a moissanite sometimes their opinions rapidly change. People somehow get hung up on the idea of manufactured versus mined stones, or that its a "fake" diamond.
- NorthOf33rd 6y ago
  I found the local shop that does the work for the chains. Turns out most of the big guys outsource their work. They didn’t care in the least what stone we brought them and their prices were way better than the big local chains, even though it was actually the same work. I’m guessing this arrangement is the same in most cities.
- xur17 6y ago
  > When I took the moissanite to a jewelry store to get it mounted, the "fake" diamond detector actually said the moissanite was a diamond! I was actually very surprised to see that, and I was candid in the fact that I brought them a moissanite. (which leads to my following point....) That's hilarious - any idea how the "fake" detectors work (it seems they are not very accurate)?
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
You know what else doesn’t pass the smell test? The whole “spend 3 months salary on a ring” propaganda I’ve heard more and more over the last 5 or so years. Some people really believe this like it’s some cultural rule.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- smolder 6y ago
  It's amazing what people can be made to believe. The non-religious, too, carry faith in all sorts of popular memes for which there's little/no evidence, just stories.
Pyramus 6y ago
Another alternative is to simply buy second hand or from an auction. Personally I see diamonds in a league with works of art. There is definitely value, but it's subjective, generally a lot less then expected and highly illiquid.
- t0mbstone 6y ago
  Yep... They can complain all they want about how diamonds have no resale value, but if the place you bought it from initially was an auction, then logic follows that you should be able to sell it for the exact same price at another auction. In other words, buy jewelry from auctions and you will get exactly what you pay for. I bought a wedding ring set for my partner for around $600 off ebay and then I had it appraised. It would have retailed for around $4,000 according to the appraiser. That's a massive amount of wasted money if I had bought it brand new!
anonymouswacker 6y ago
My main squeeze and I wanted black rings, and we just got Oura Rings, which track sleep and activity. This way they actually have utility, and we get to ask each other in the mornings, "how'd you sleep?", and have data to back it up.
amelius 6y ago
This lost a lot of credibility at the point where they linked to the moissanite.net shop.
- pwython 6y ago
  It wasn't even a hyperlink, it was plain text. Generally you want to source your information, and that one price point came from moissanite.net
  - amelius 6y ago
    For me, in this case, trustworthiness is more important than knowing the price at one particular shop.
- nkatsaros 6y ago
  This page is from 2006 when the Charles and Colvard patent on silicon carbide gems was still active and there were no other sellers.
hirundo 6y ago
The author focuses on the "object of beauty" role of the engagement stone, but I think that the more important role in marital tradition is as a "store of value". It publicly indicates the groom's value for the wife, while also handing her a measure of independence, to assist in exiting a bad marriage. That is, it helps to mark the union as consensual. While a deed to real estate might serve these purposes better than a gemstone, the gemstone is easier to flaunt. But the details of its luster, etc., are still less important to the longevity of the tradition than its economic value.
- mcgingras 6y ago
  The author actually included a section on diamond being a poor store of value. The idea that a man is spending wads of cash on an engagement ring for his wife as "insurance" that she is able to leave and sell the ring seems wrong to me.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- smolder 6y ago
  If you believe that engagement stones should be a store of value then you are supporting the authors point that we shouldn't buy diamonds.
seanc 6y ago
Absolutely true, but FTR there are now lab grown diamonds which change the calculus a bit.
Chris2048 6y ago
Do you even need a stone? Couldn't a regular metal band do well enough? If it needs to be fancy, make it out of gold, platinum or silver?
Arrath 6y ago
My father sidestepped the diamond issue by way of my parent's rings being simple yet lovely gold bands. The kicker, they're made from gold he mined himself in Alaska.
ashtonbaker 6y ago
It's a bit odd to me to have a very clear condemnation of De Beers, their advertising, the diamond industry, purchasing diamonds, paired with a recommendation for a "diamond alternative". Isn't this just buying into the cultural expectation - artificially created by De Beers - of wearing an expensive clear-colored rock? Doesn't it benefit the diamond industry if you wear a very large moissanite, cubic zirconia, or artificial diamond, even if it isn't the genuine article? It's advertising for them anyway, as you're promoting the general trend, especially to those who you don't explain yourself to, and who just see a big shiny rock that looks like a diamond. It seems more productive to just go the rest of the way and avoid gemstones on your rings, or avoid rings in general.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  It's easier to tell someone to eat less meat than to eat no meat at all. Similarly it's easier to tell people to get a diamond alternative rather than just no diamond at all.
  - ashtonbaker 6y ago
    Right, of course! And it even makes sense for a vegan food company to make its products taste as close to meat as possible to appeal to meat-eaters expectations about food, and decrease the amount of meat eaten in the world. It's slightly strange, though, that the first part of the pitch here is basically "the cultural desire for diamonds, including your own desire for diamonds, can be traced back to this single ad campaign" - it seems like the logical next step in that argument is "therefore, do not desire diamonds", not "here's something that looks as much like diamonds as possible, to satisfy your desire". I think it's harder to make the "unnaturalness of desire" argument with meat, though many vegans/vegetarians do try. And it's certainly not part of the messaging of the Impossible Burger.
    - silicon2401 6y ago
      I'd go so far as to say it _is_ natural to desire diamonds. Jewels have been a major part of human civilization for thousands of years.
nsajko 6y ago
I completely agree with the points the page makes, but I don't think it will turn away many from diamonds as it misses the point of getting a diamond. Shoving a diamond in an engagement ring might have been pretty cool the first few times somebody did that, but nowadays it's not at all interesting, novel or original; and I'm pretty sure people don't marvel at the way their gem disperses light after the first few days of having it pass. This is what I think is really the reason people gift and wear engagement rings: upholding tradition and signalling commitment. Even if the tradition is "fake", created by De Beers marketing, isn't most tradition like that anyway? Artificial gemstones don't lie too well with people who care about the tradition of gemstones. I don't even think it's necessary to care for the tradition, I think the value of natural diamonds is pretty much burned into everybody's subconscious by pop culture. And the inflated cost is actually a "plus" for signalling commitment. Don't get me wrong, I would feel pretty stupid if I had to buy diamond jewelry (if I could); I just don't think the article makes a good pitch, because its points don't hit close enough to the reasons people buy (or desire) diamonds. I kind of think that the article speaks best to those who are least inclined to buy diamonds anyway.
- curryst 6y ago
  It's not even particularly traditional. Up until the DeBeers campaign in the 30s/40s, a wide array of gems were used in wedding rings. Wedding rings are traditional, but solely using diamonds is fairly novel. It would be more traditional to use any other gem. > This is what I think is really the reason people gift and wear engagement rings: upholding tradition and signalling commitment. Both of those are bad reasons. A diamond wedding ring is not traditional (nor is the obscene spending, at least once we stopped using wedding rings as part of the dowry), and spending a bunch of money is a bad way to show commitment. Anyone can spend a bunch of money without caring at all. This is the worst part of the DeBeers mythos; equating lavish spending with commitment. They are not the same.
- CollinEMac 6y ago
  I agree. I think the author is missing the point of diamond engagement rings. Also, none of this seven points really sway me. 1. Basically anything that's expensive has had its price inflated in some way. That doesn't make it anyone any less willing to pay the price. 2. Same as number 1. Lots of things are only expensive because they've been marketed well. Does that make them less valuable? 3. No one buys an engagement ring as an investment. Who buys an engagement ring thinking they'll be able to recuperate costs? 4. This one has merit but there has also been a lot of progress in recent years. things like these have popped up and most major jewelers are taking part. Ask where your diamond was sourced before buying. https://www.responsiblejewellery.com/ https://www.responsiblejewellery.com/ 5. Don't spend more than you can afford on anything. That's just common sense. 6. The author is really missing the point here. You can make an exact replica of a famous painting but it's still a replica. There's value in authenticity. 7. Same as number 5. Also, you could say this about any major purchase.
dang 6y ago
Threads about diamonds are forever: Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 - April 2021 (<-- you are here) Diamonds aren’t special and neither is love - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 - Jan 2021 (90 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 - Nov 2020 (27 comments) Billions of dollars of unsold diamonds are piling up around the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 - June 2020 (104 comments) Shaking Up the Diamond Industry - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 - Feb 2020 (120 comments) Diamonds Keep Getting Cheaper - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 - Nov 2019 (389 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 - Aug 2019 (237 comments) The Elite Club That Rules the Diamond World Is Starting to Crack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 - July 2019 (200 comments) Would You Pay $32,709 for a Lab-Grown Diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 - March 2019 (34 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 - May 2018 (215 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 - May 2018 (45 comments) De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 - May 2018 (439 comments) Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 - March 2018 (301 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 - Nov 2016 (576 comments) A Lab-Grown Diamond Is Forever - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 - June 2016 (106 comments) What the diamond industry is really selling - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 - Feb 2016 (83 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 - Jan 2016 (2 comments) Diamonds are Bullshit (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 - March 2015 (75 comments) A Diamond Market No Longer Controlled By De Beers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 - May 2014 (111 comments) Diamonds Suck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 - Dec 2013 (3 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 - March 2013 (734 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 - Sept 2012 (225 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 - June 2010 (85 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 - Feb 2010 (76 comments) The Facts About Diamonds (and why I don’t like De Beers) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 - Feb 2010 (41 comments) De Beers profits fall 92% - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 - July 2009 (25 comments) Diamonds on Demand - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 - Oct 2008 (16 comments) For clarity: reposts are fine after a year or so (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html). Links to past discussions are just for curiosity's sake. In the case of a perennial topic like this one, we probably should wait longer than 5 months though.

51 points by brink 6y ago

I checked out moissanite when shopping for an engagement ring but I found even that to be too expensive for my (and more importantly, my future wife's) taste. I went with cubic zirconia, it looks great, maybe not as durable as diamond or moisannite but if it gets damaged I can replace it for $50-100.

everdrive 6y ago
Yep, and it's much likelier that a diamond (or any other stone) is lost, rather than damaged.
- seanc 6y ago
  Indeed. Came here to say that over several decades the risk of losing a diamond is non-trivial. It's not even a matter of losing the ring; sometimes the ring setting can fail and the stone simply falls out.

Arete314159 6y ago

I was fortunate enough to inherit a few pieces of diamond jewelry. Imagine my surprise when I went to try to sell it! It's not uncommon to only be able to sell something for 1/3 of the appraisal value. When it came time to get married, I did not want a diamond ring.

CodesInChaos 6y ago

That 1982 Atlantic article "Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond?" is a great read. The link in the article is dead, but it can now be found at: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-yo...

paulgb 6y ago

Diamond alternatives are fine, but another option is just not getting a ring. My wife and I decided not to and nobody really cares. We spent the money on travel instead, and the memories are more valuable to us than a tiny rock. Don’t get me wrong, diamonds and other gems are beautiful and if you want one, go for it. But if it’s not something that is worth $5-10k to you, just know that it’s a choice, not an obligation.

blacktriangle 6y ago
Or just don't blow a ton on rings? My wife and I spent roughly $200 each on rings. Or even just buy some of those silicon rings that are roughly $50. I really like wearing a wedding ring, but not being attached to any one ring that I'm worried about losing or damaging is nice too. Also like you say gems other than diamonds are nice. I'm seeing many more engagement rings recently that are opting for different stones as well.
- thedanbob 6y ago
  I splurged a bit on my wife's rings but absolutely didn't care about mine. I have two $30 tungsten carbide rings from Amazon, one I wear daily and a nicer one for special occasions.
- intrasight 6y ago
  Is women giving men an engagement ring a new thing? I got my wife (30 years ago) a ring with two opals and a center sapphire - custom made by a local jeweler. It makes diamond rings look pretty boring.
  - eqvinox 6y ago
    As an unmarried mid-30 male, I absolutely plan on getting myself a nice jeweled ring. I like shiny things ;). I also like weird rare metals (seems to be a common thing among the HN crowd), my current favorite is Rhenium, but I'm wary of medical considerations (the "can't get it off in an emergency" kind, not the allergy kind.) It does seem to be a generational difference to some degree. FWIW I just don't give a f*ck anymore about conventions. P.S.: Absolutely agree on plain diamond rings being boring & giving it a personal touch. I mean, how is a diamond ring special to our relationship?

kop316 6y ago

I'll add my name to the list of folks who did not get a dianmond, but a Moissanite ring. A couple of things I learned along the way: - I bought the ring and the Moissenite seperately. I bought the ring at a regular jewelry store (my spouse found one she liked). It is a very HARD sell when you buy the ring to also get the diamond. I ended up buying the ring online to pick it up, and I have wondered since then if they would have refused to sell me the ring if I tried to buy it in store without a diamond. - I bought the moissanite online. It was nice seeing a linear increase in price on size versus an exponential price difference. - When I took the moissanite to a jewelry store to get it mounted, the "fake" diamond detector actually said the moissanite was a diamond! I was actually very surprised to see that, and I was candid in the fact that I brought them a moissanite. (which leads to my following point....) - Many jewelry stores do not want to touch moissanites. As soon as the jewelry store found out I bought them a moissanite, they said they cannot do anything with it. I ended up bringing the ring and moissanite to a store that deals in moissanites. My spouse likes her ring, and absolutely no one has been able to tell the difference. The closest I have seen is commenting on how "flawless" it looks, and the "diamond" must have cost a lot due to it looking flawless.

vel0city 6y ago
My spouse and I have had similar experiences with people remarking on the stone. Its funny how they think it must be so fancy, being quite large and flawless and shiny. Then when we tell them its actually a moissanite sometimes their opinions rapidly change. People somehow get hung up on the idea of manufactured versus mined stones, or that its a "fake" diamond.
NorthOf33rd 6y ago
I found the local shop that does the work for the chains. Turns out most of the big guys outsource their work. They didn’t care in the least what stone we brought them and their prices were way better than the big local chains, even though it was actually the same work. I’m guessing this arrangement is the same in most cities.
xur17 6y ago
> When I took the moissanite to a jewelry store to get it mounted, the "fake" diamond detector actually said the moissanite was a diamond! I was actually very surprised to see that, and I was candid in the fact that I brought them a moissanite. (which leads to my following point....) That's hilarious - any idea how the "fake" detectors work (it seems they are not very accurate)?

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

You know what else doesn’t pass the smell test? The whole “spend 3 months salary on a ring” propaganda I’ve heard more and more over the last 5 or so years. Some people really believe this like it’s some cultural rule.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
smolder 6y ago
It's amazing what people can be made to believe. The non-religious, too, carry faith in all sorts of popular memes for which there's little/no evidence, just stories.

Pyramus 6y ago

Another alternative is to simply buy second hand or from an auction. Personally I see diamonds in a league with works of art. There is definitely value, but it's subjective, generally a lot less then expected and highly illiquid.

t0mbstone 6y ago
Yep... They can complain all they want about how diamonds have no resale value, but if the place you bought it from initially was an auction, then logic follows that you should be able to sell it for the exact same price at another auction. In other words, buy jewelry from auctions and you will get exactly what you pay for. I bought a wedding ring set for my partner for around $600 off ebay and then I had it appraised. It would have retailed for around $4,000 according to the appraiser. That's a massive amount of wasted money if I had bought it brand new!

anonymouswacker 6y ago

My main squeeze and I wanted black rings, and we just got Oura Rings, which track sleep and activity. This way they actually have utility, and we get to ask each other in the mornings, "how'd you sleep?", and have data to back it up.

amelius 6y ago

This lost a lot of credibility at the point where they linked to the moissanite.net shop.

pwython 6y ago
It wasn't even a hyperlink, it was plain text. Generally you want to source your information, and that one price point came from moissanite.net
- amelius 6y ago
  For me, in this case, trustworthiness is more important than knowing the price at one particular shop.
nkatsaros 6y ago
This page is from 2006 when the Charles and Colvard patent on silicon carbide gems was still active and there were no other sellers.

hirundo 6y ago

The author focuses on the "object of beauty" role of the engagement stone, but I think that the more important role in marital tradition is as a "store of value". It publicly indicates the groom's value for the wife, while also handing her a measure of independence, to assist in exiting a bad marriage. That is, it helps to mark the union as consensual. While a deed to real estate might serve these purposes better than a gemstone, the gemstone is easier to flaunt. But the details of its luster, etc., are still less important to the longevity of the tradition than its economic value.

mcgingras 6y ago
The author actually included a section on diamond being a poor store of value. The idea that a man is spending wads of cash on an engagement ring for his wife as "insurance" that she is able to leave and sell the ring seems wrong to me.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
smolder 6y ago
If you believe that engagement stones should be a store of value then you are supporting the authors point that we shouldn't buy diamonds.

seanc 6y ago

Absolutely true, but FTR there are now lab grown diamonds which change the calculus a bit.

Chris2048 6y ago

Do you even need a stone? Couldn't a regular metal band do well enough? If it needs to be fancy, make it out of gold, platinum or silver?

Arrath 6y ago

My father sidestepped the diamond issue by way of my parent's rings being simple yet lovely gold bands. The kicker, they're made from gold he mined himself in Alaska.

ashtonbaker 6y ago

It's a bit odd to me to have a very clear condemnation of De Beers, their advertising, the diamond industry, purchasing diamonds, paired with a recommendation for a "diamond alternative". Isn't this just buying into the cultural expectation - artificially created by De Beers - of wearing an expensive clear-colored rock? Doesn't it benefit the diamond industry if you wear a very large moissanite, cubic zirconia, or artificial diamond, even if it isn't the genuine article? It's advertising for them anyway, as you're promoting the general trend, especially to those who you don't explain yourself to, and who just see a big shiny rock that looks like a diamond. It seems more productive to just go the rest of the way and avoid gemstones on your rings, or avoid rings in general.

silicon2401 6y ago
It's easier to tell someone to eat less meat than to eat no meat at all. Similarly it's easier to tell people to get a diamond alternative rather than just no diamond at all.
- ashtonbaker 6y ago
  Right, of course! And it even makes sense for a vegan food company to make its products taste as close to meat as possible to appeal to meat-eaters expectations about food, and decrease the amount of meat eaten in the world. It's slightly strange, though, that the first part of the pitch here is basically "the cultural desire for diamonds, including your own desire for diamonds, can be traced back to this single ad campaign" - it seems like the logical next step in that argument is "therefore, do not desire diamonds", not "here's something that looks as much like diamonds as possible, to satisfy your desire". I think it's harder to make the "unnaturalness of desire" argument with meat, though many vegans/vegetarians do try. And it's certainly not part of the messaging of the Impossible Burger.
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    I'd go so far as to say it _is_ natural to desire diamonds. Jewels have been a major part of human civilization for thousands of years.

nsajko 6y ago

I completely agree with the points the page makes, but I don't think it will turn away many from diamonds as it misses the point of getting a diamond. Shoving a diamond in an engagement ring might have been pretty cool the first few times somebody did that, but nowadays it's not at all interesting, novel or original; and I'm pretty sure people don't marvel at the way their gem disperses light after the first few days of having it pass. This is what I think is really the reason people gift and wear engagement rings: upholding tradition and signalling commitment. Even if the tradition is "fake", created by De Beers marketing, isn't most tradition like that anyway? Artificial gemstones don't lie too well with people who care about the tradition of gemstones. I don't even think it's necessary to care for the tradition, I think the value of natural diamonds is pretty much burned into everybody's subconscious by pop culture. And the inflated cost is actually a "plus" for signalling commitment. Don't get me wrong, I would feel pretty stupid if I had to buy diamond jewelry (if I could); I just don't think the article makes a good pitch, because its points don't hit close enough to the reasons people buy (or desire) diamonds. I kind of think that the article speaks best to those who are least inclined to buy diamonds anyway.

curryst 6y ago
It's not even particularly traditional. Up until the DeBeers campaign in the 30s/40s, a wide array of gems were used in wedding rings. Wedding rings are traditional, but solely using diamonds is fairly novel. It would be more traditional to use any other gem. > This is what I think is really the reason people gift and wear engagement rings: upholding tradition and signalling commitment. Both of those are bad reasons. A diamond wedding ring is not traditional (nor is the obscene spending, at least once we stopped using wedding rings as part of the dowry), and spending a bunch of money is a bad way to show commitment. Anyone can spend a bunch of money without caring at all. This is the worst part of the DeBeers mythos; equating lavish spending with commitment. They are not the same.
CollinEMac 6y ago
I agree. I think the author is missing the point of diamond engagement rings. Also, none of this seven points really sway me. 1. Basically anything that's expensive has had its price inflated in some way. That doesn't make it anyone any less willing to pay the price. 2. Same as number 1. Lots of things are only expensive because they've been marketed well. Does that make them less valuable? 3. No one buys an engagement ring as an investment. Who buys an engagement ring thinking they'll be able to recuperate costs? 4. This one has merit but there has also been a lot of progress in recent years. things like these have popped up and most major jewelers are taking part. Ask where your diamond was sourced before buying. https://www.responsiblejewellery.com/ https://www.responsiblejewellery.com/ 5. Don't spend more than you can afford on anything. That's just common sense. 6. The author is really missing the point here. You can make an exact replica of a famous painting but it's still a replica. There's value in authenticity. 7. Same as number 5. Also, you could say this about any major purchase.

dang 6y ago

Threads about diamonds are forever: Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26698511 - April 2021 (<-- you are here) Diamonds aren’t special and neither is love - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978139 - Jan 2021 (90 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25059605 - Nov 2020 (27 comments) Billions of dollars of unsold diamonds are piling up around the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23502201 - June 2020 (104 comments) Shaking Up the Diamond Industry - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209364 - Feb 2020 (120 comments) Diamonds Keep Getting Cheaper - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21522898 - Nov 2019 (389 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818618 - Aug 2019 (237 comments) The Elite Club That Rules the Diamond World Is Starting to Crack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20555503 - July 2019 (200 comments) Would You Pay $32,709 for a Lab-Grown Diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19287565 - March 2019 (34 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17186457 - May 2018 (215 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184539 - May 2018 (45 comments) De Beers admits defeat over man-made diamonds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17183603 - May 2018 (439 comments) Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16551147 - March 2018 (301 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12944464 - Nov 2016 (576 comments) A Lab-Grown Diamond Is Forever - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11903409 - June 2016 (106 comments) What the diamond industry is really selling - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11099809 - Feb 2016 (83 comments) Diamonds Suck (2006) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10834567 - Jan 2016 (2 comments) Diamonds are Bullshit (2013) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9251952 - March 2015 (75 comments) A Diamond Market No Longer Controlled By De Beers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7793386 - May 2014 (111 comments) Diamonds Suck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6868968 - Dec 2013 (3 comments) Diamonds Are Bullshit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 - March 2013 (734 comments) Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? (1982) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 - Sept 2012 (225 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405698 - June 2010 (85 comments) Have you ever tried to sell a diamond? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1110283 - Feb 2010 (76 comments) The Facts About Diamonds (and why I don’t like De Beers) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1109318 - Feb 2010 (41 comments) De Beers profits fall 92% - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=722115 - July 2009 (25 comments) Diamonds on Demand - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=330749 - Oct 2008 (16 comments) For clarity: reposts are fine after a year or so (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html). Links to past discussions are just for curiosity's sake. In the case of a perennial topic like this one, we probably should wait longer than 5 months though.