4 ms·

I though the “placebo effect” is just regression to the mean. I.e. “sick people tend to get better”

orangeoxidation 6y ago
That doesn't seem to be all of it. See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo
Stupulous 6y ago
Nah, it works the other direction too. People expecting side effects from a placebo often get them- though you could argue that many side effects are common symptome now being associated with the drug. Still, the placebo effect beats no treatment per https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/5/1/15 https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/5/1/15 or https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12535498/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12535498/
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Interesting, it looks like the studies I was thinking of are fairly old: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/study-finds-placebo-effec/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/study-finds-place...
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Actually, the studies you cite seem to be in line with this Scientific American article: no objective benefits, but some efficacy on subjective benefits and pain reduction.
- spider-mario 6y ago
  Only in subjective outcomes. There was no objective outcome where an effect could be perceived.
lazide 6y ago
It is quite measurably not, oddly - https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-th... Essentially believing you have been given something that will make you healthier, can reduce the stress responses, pain perception and other issues that may be making the problem worse. In some cases it can be enough to allow the immune system to get better traction and objectively get healthier faster than with no medicine. Pretty weird eh?
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  The wild part is that the body releases internal painkillers when they get some fake (or real) ones, and that this reaction can be blocked by naloxone, indicating that it's a physical response.
jrgoff 6y ago
No, the mind can have a significant effect on the body. For example this webmd article on placebo cites studies where what the participant was told about a pill (stimulant vs sleep aid) effected heart rate, blood pressure and reaction time in opposite directions. https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-effect https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-ef...
varajelle 6y ago
It isn't. People recover better with a placebo than with nothing. There are studies that even show that some placebo are better than other based on the price, the colour, who prescribed it, ...

That doesn't seem to be all of it. See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo

Stupulous 6y ago

Nah, it works the other direction too. People expecting side effects from a placebo often get them- though you could argue that many side effects are common symptome now being associated with the drug. Still, the placebo effect beats no treatment per https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/5/1/15 https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/5/1/15 or https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12535498/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12535498/

fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
Interesting, it looks like the studies I was thinking of are fairly old: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/study-finds-placebo-effec/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/study-finds-place...
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Actually, the studies you cite seem to be in line with this Scientific American article: no objective benefits, but some efficacy on subjective benefits and pain reduction.
spider-mario 6y ago
Only in subjective outcomes. There was no objective outcome where an effect could be perceived.

lazide 6y ago

It is quite measurably not, oddly - https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-th... Essentially believing you have been given something that will make you healthier, can reduce the stress responses, pain perception and other issues that may be making the problem worse. In some cases it can be enough to allow the immune system to get better traction and objectively get healthier faster than with no medicine. Pretty weird eh?

disgruntledphd2 6y ago
The wild part is that the body releases internal painkillers when they get some fake (or real) ones, and that this reaction can be blocked by naloxone, indicating that it's a physical response.

jrgoff 6y ago

No, the mind can have a significant effect on the body. For example this webmd article on placebo cites studies where what the participant was told about a pill (stimulant vs sleep aid) effected heart rate, blood pressure and reaction time in opposite directions. https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-effect https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-ef...

varajelle 6y ago

It isn't. People recover better with a placebo than with nothing. There are studies that even show that some placebo are better than other based on the price, the colour, who prescribed it, ...