7 ms·

The problem is what is illegal then? Numbers? Cryptography? Because nobody buy sell or own crypto technically, there just happen to be transactions on a distrib

The problem is what is illegal then? Numbers? Cryptography? Because nobody buy sell or own crypto technically, there just happen to be transactions on a distributed network, with some people knowing private keys to generate new transactions. It could be possible to regulate exchanges dealing with fiat, but I feel like the regulable surface area is thin. Also I hope Proof of stake take over so that a big part of these issues will be non existent in a few years.

thefounder 6y ago
Crypto without fiat exchange is worthless..am I wrong? Like I would start minting my own illegal currency.
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  > Crypto without fiat exchange is worthless..am I wrong? You’re not wrong, Walter.
joaomacp 6y ago
> It could be possible to regulate exchanges dealing with fiat, but I feel like the regulable surface area is thin. It may be thin, but it covers most people. Most crypto buyers use fiat exchanges. If those were ruled out, the monetary value of tokens would go down, and with it the mining incentives would lower. It wouldn't be the end of crypto, but it would alleviate many issues (energy, hardware shortage, etc). PS: I don't think crypto is the only reason for GPU shortage (others being more demand from stay-at-home people, and general semiconductor shortages), but I believe it plays a part.
- leereeves 6y ago
  > I don't think crypto is the only reason for GPU shortage (others being more demand from stay-at-home people, and general semiconductor shortages) Then why are only GPUs unavailable? We can still easily buy CPUs, memory, SSDs, etc.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Memory and SSD chips are made on older processes with coarser structures which means that they're more or less unaffected by the current limitations in manufacturing capacity that CPUs and GPUs suffer.
  - bayindirh 6y ago
    > Then why are only GPUs unavailable? Because they're harder to build, and there is some serious HPC capacity is being built up right now around the world, which buys these chips buy thousands. Same entities which hoard Tesla GPUs are not interested in unregistered RAM, consumer SSDs and CPUs. Unfortunately, a run of the mill Tesla is not much different from a GeForce. OTOH, RAM, CPU and SSD for these applications are built from different parts.
- bko 6y ago
  So basically get rid of all the legitimate use cases and leave the nefarious ones? Not everyone lives in the developed world where they can just Venmo their friends for brunch. Some people live in counties with capital controls that means they see their wealth disappear year after year. Gamers in western countries have to pay slightly higher prices for their high end gaming GPUs. Excuse me while I clutch my pearls! The cavalier attitude people have about this tech is really disheartening to see.
  - mikepurvis 6y ago
    Can anyone claim with a straight face that the current state of the crypto ecosystem permits use cases like "splitting a bill with your friends after lunch" or "hiding your earnings from unjust taxation"? It may aspire to be/do these things, and that's great, but that’s not the present reality.
    - vngzs 6y ago
      If you want a (relatively) untraceable cryptocurrency, they exist [0]. Yes, most cryptocurrencies are _perfectly_ traceable - you can trace the source/destination of every transaction - contrary to the common narrative. [0]: https://www.getmonero.org/ https://www.getmonero.org/
    - bko 6y ago
      It's the base layer of payment system. There will be a layer on top of it for things like that. When you split a check on venmo, that money isn't really there until a few days. The venmo system is a few layers removed from the equivalent of Bitcoin.. What Bitcoin provides is sound money with a fixed predictable supply not at the whims of politicians and fed officials. There is no way to increase the supply of Bitcoin by 23% like we had with the us dollar over the last year
      - jfk13 6y ago
        I would expect "sound money" to have a fairly stable, predictable value in terms of real-world goods and services for which it can be exchanged. I haven't observed that to be the case for Bitcoin. Being "at the whims of politicians and fed officials" seems in practice to provide much better stability than being at the whims of a horde of reddit "investors" (or a cabal of Chinese miners).
leereeves 6y ago
> The problem is what is illegal then? Numbers? Cryptography? What is cash? Paper? Ink? Currency isn't defined by what it's made of. > there just happen to be transactions on a distributed network, with some people knowing private keys to generate new transactions Transactions in which digital tokens are exchanged for goods, services, or other currencies, and the recipient of the tokens generally receives no benefit other than the ability to trade those tokens again. Cryptocurrencies are recognizable by the way they are used.
reader_mode 6y ago
Stoping exchanges and institutional holding would pretty much kill it.
sneak 6y ago
Publishing cryptographic signatures is, in my view, protected expression. I have long maintained that cryptocurrencies aren't property: they're speech.
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thefounder 6y ago

Crypto without fiat exchange is worthless..am I wrong? Like I would start minting my own illegal currency.

quickthrowman 6y ago
> Crypto without fiat exchange is worthless..am I wrong? You’re not wrong, Walter.

joaomacp 6y ago

> It could be possible to regulate exchanges dealing with fiat, but I feel like the regulable surface area is thin. It may be thin, but it covers most people. Most crypto buyers use fiat exchanges. If those were ruled out, the monetary value of tokens would go down, and with it the mining incentives would lower. It wouldn't be the end of crypto, but it would alleviate many issues (energy, hardware shortage, etc). PS: I don't think crypto is the only reason for GPU shortage (others being more demand from stay-at-home people, and general semiconductor shortages), but I believe it plays a part.

leereeves 6y ago
> I don't think crypto is the only reason for GPU shortage (others being more demand from stay-at-home people, and general semiconductor shortages) Then why are only GPUs unavailable? We can still easily buy CPUs, memory, SSDs, etc.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Memory and SSD chips are made on older processes with coarser structures which means that they're more or less unaffected by the current limitations in manufacturing capacity that CPUs and GPUs suffer.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  > Then why are only GPUs unavailable? Because they're harder to build, and there is some serious HPC capacity is being built up right now around the world, which buys these chips buy thousands. Same entities which hoard Tesla GPUs are not interested in unregistered RAM, consumer SSDs and CPUs. Unfortunately, a run of the mill Tesla is not much different from a GeForce. OTOH, RAM, CPU and SSD for these applications are built from different parts.
bko 6y ago
So basically get rid of all the legitimate use cases and leave the nefarious ones? Not everyone lives in the developed world where they can just Venmo their friends for brunch. Some people live in counties with capital controls that means they see their wealth disappear year after year. Gamers in western countries have to pay slightly higher prices for their high end gaming GPUs. Excuse me while I clutch my pearls! The cavalier attitude people have about this tech is really disheartening to see.
- mikepurvis 6y ago
  Can anyone claim with a straight face that the current state of the crypto ecosystem permits use cases like "splitting a bill with your friends after lunch" or "hiding your earnings from unjust taxation"? It may aspire to be/do these things, and that's great, but that’s not the present reality.
  - vngzs 6y ago
    If you want a (relatively) untraceable cryptocurrency, they exist [0]. Yes, most cryptocurrencies are _perfectly_ traceable - you can trace the source/destination of every transaction - contrary to the common narrative. [0]: https://www.getmonero.org/ https://www.getmonero.org/
  - bko 6y ago
    It's the base layer of payment system. There will be a layer on top of it for things like that. When you split a check on venmo, that money isn't really there until a few days. The venmo system is a few layers removed from the equivalent of Bitcoin.. What Bitcoin provides is sound money with a fixed predictable supply not at the whims of politicians and fed officials. There is no way to increase the supply of Bitcoin by 23% like we had with the us dollar over the last year
    - jfk13 6y ago
      I would expect "sound money" to have a fairly stable, predictable value in terms of real-world goods and services for which it can be exchanged. I haven't observed that to be the case for Bitcoin. Being "at the whims of politicians and fed officials" seems in practice to provide much better stability than being at the whims of a horde of reddit "investors" (or a cabal of Chinese miners).

leereeves 6y ago

> The problem is what is illegal then? Numbers? Cryptography? What is cash? Paper? Ink? Currency isn't defined by what it's made of. > there just happen to be transactions on a distributed network, with some people knowing private keys to generate new transactions Transactions in which digital tokens are exchanged for goods, services, or other currencies, and the recipient of the tokens generally receives no benefit other than the ability to trade those tokens again. Cryptocurrencies are recognizable by the way they are used.

reader_mode 6y ago

Stoping exchanges and institutional holding would pretty much kill it.

sneak 6y ago

Publishing cryptographic signatures is, in my view, protected expression. I have long maintained that cryptocurrencies aren't property: they're speech.

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