5 ms·

Are you saying that an Wuhan-style lockdown would have been a better or even feasible approach? I don't think humans anywhere are able to "pull in the same dir

Are you saying that an Wuhan-style lockdown would have been a better or even feasible approach? I don't think humans anywhere are able to "pull in the same direction" to the extent that such a lockdown is possible without an authoritarian government. Italy imposed pretty draconian rules for at least six weeks, and has still had to deal with a second wave and additional lockdowns. Personally, I think that the principles of personal freedom (that such an authoritarian government is largely incompatible with) are much more valuable in the long run. Working through the disease has been messier in the last year, but the economic system largely based on these principles was also able to produce novel vaccines. While the last year has been rough, I'm much happier overall that I don't live in a place where an authoritarian lockdown is even possible.

mdoms 6y ago
We did it in New Zealand.
- ahepp 6y ago
  What's up with people from NZ constantly spamming every post about covid with an "I DoNt uNdErStAnD wHy YoU dIdNt jUsT lOcK dOwN" Absolutely infuriating, look at a map dude inb4 vietnam Yeah, it's landlocked. Great job Vietnam, we should learn from how they did it. Doesn't change the fact that it's a major outlier.
  - castis 6y ago
    > we should learn from how they did it Lockdowns and people immediately willing be a part of the contract tracing part. https://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-coronavirus-measures-among-best-in-world-contact-tracing-masks-2021-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-coronavirus-measures...
  - trickstra 6y ago
    Hello from Vietnam. Lockdowns are not about islands. It helps, kinda, but not completely. Vietnam completely sacrificed the tourist industry, unlike US or Europe. Quarantine is at a designated facility, not at home, unchecked, like in US or Europe. And dissent is suppressed. The last part is a bit unfortunate, but the former ones are really just a matter of decision. And it works.
    - ahepp 6y ago
      Sincere congratulations, living in the US I think it's inspiring to see all the countries with incredible (and relatively equally distributed) health outcomes at costs that society can bear. That said, I want people from island countries to stop saying "being an island country has nothing to do with it", when all evidence and logic says being an island country has a lot to do with it. I'll happily take criticism from Vietnam, even if I think it's of questionable utility to say "you just did it wrong" when the overwhelming majority of countries seem to have "done it wrong"
      - trickstra 6y ago
        Yes, overwhelming majority can easily be wrong. That's not surprising. And islands still have to watch for random boats from any direction. Right now in Vietnam there is a little outbreak where a group of Vietnamese nationals illegally crossed the border by a fishing boat from Cambodia to Phu Quoc island, trying to avoid the mandatory two-week quarantine. Then they boarded a plane, arrived at their homeland and tested positive. Immediately their steps were traced by police, whole Phu Quoc is under a mask mandate, 3 levels of contacts are tested and in quarantine. It really isn't about being an island. That's a myth, you've been lied to. If you want an example closer to your home, look how hard it is to seal a land border with Mexico. They actually cross by rivers, so water makes it easier.
- dnautics 6y ago
  you're also an island. there's a strong multiscalar correlation between being an island and having good covid outcomes. NZ, Taiwan, South Korea (not technically an island, but might as well be), Australia, Japan. And at subnational levels too: The best us state is Hawaii. The best city in the bay area is Alameda.
  - mdoms 6y ago
    The lockdown worked, though... We had the virus, then we locked down, then we didn't have the virus. Why didn't you lock down?
    - dnautics 6y ago
      you can't say it would have worked. There are places that locked down harder than the US and still fared worse. I'll remind you that the EU had 1.5x the population adjusted mortality of the US, before their immunization shenanigans; and that's despite the US having an irresponsible science-denier president.
      - mdoms 6y ago
        Half a million dead Americans. Fair to say what you're doing didn't work.
        snapetom 6y ago
        "the population adjusted mortality." I don't know why this is so hard to understand, and I'd expect a HN audience to understand how proportions work instead of just parroting hyperbole.
        spookthesunset 6y ago
        > Half a million dead Americans. One of the hardest challenges of leadership is resisting the urge to DO SOMETHING when crisis happens. > Fair to say what you're doing didn't work. And yet western nations keep trying the same failed policies over and over again and getting the same results.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  NZ population is 4.9 million people. That’s half the size of SF Bay Area. How is this a fair comparison?

mdoms 6y ago

We did it in New Zealand.

ahepp 6y ago
What's up with people from NZ constantly spamming every post about covid with an "I DoNt uNdErStAnD wHy YoU dIdNt jUsT lOcK dOwN" Absolutely infuriating, look at a map dude inb4 vietnam Yeah, it's landlocked. Great job Vietnam, we should learn from how they did it. Doesn't change the fact that it's a major outlier.
- castis 6y ago
  > we should learn from how they did it Lockdowns and people immediately willing be a part of the contract tracing part. https://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-coronavirus-measures-among-best-in-world-contact-tracing-masks-2021-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/vietnam-coronavirus-measures...
- trickstra 6y ago
  Hello from Vietnam. Lockdowns are not about islands. It helps, kinda, but not completely. Vietnam completely sacrificed the tourist industry, unlike US or Europe. Quarantine is at a designated facility, not at home, unchecked, like in US or Europe. And dissent is suppressed. The last part is a bit unfortunate, but the former ones are really just a matter of decision. And it works.
  - ahepp 6y ago
    Sincere congratulations, living in the US I think it's inspiring to see all the countries with incredible (and relatively equally distributed) health outcomes at costs that society can bear. That said, I want people from island countries to stop saying "being an island country has nothing to do with it", when all evidence and logic says being an island country has a lot to do with it. I'll happily take criticism from Vietnam, even if I think it's of questionable utility to say "you just did it wrong" when the overwhelming majority of countries seem to have "done it wrong"
    - trickstra 6y ago
      Yes, overwhelming majority can easily be wrong. That's not surprising. And islands still have to watch for random boats from any direction. Right now in Vietnam there is a little outbreak where a group of Vietnamese nationals illegally crossed the border by a fishing boat from Cambodia to Phu Quoc island, trying to avoid the mandatory two-week quarantine. Then they boarded a plane, arrived at their homeland and tested positive. Immediately their steps were traced by police, whole Phu Quoc is under a mask mandate, 3 levels of contacts are tested and in quarantine. It really isn't about being an island. That's a myth, you've been lied to. If you want an example closer to your home, look how hard it is to seal a land border with Mexico. They actually cross by rivers, so water makes it easier.
dnautics 6y ago
you're also an island. there's a strong multiscalar correlation between being an island and having good covid outcomes. NZ, Taiwan, South Korea (not technically an island, but might as well be), Australia, Japan. And at subnational levels too: The best us state is Hawaii. The best city in the bay area is Alameda.
- mdoms 6y ago
  The lockdown worked, though... We had the virus, then we locked down, then we didn't have the virus. Why didn't you lock down?
  - dnautics 6y ago
    you can't say it would have worked. There are places that locked down harder than the US and still fared worse. I'll remind you that the EU had 1.5x the population adjusted mortality of the US, before their immunization shenanigans; and that's despite the US having an irresponsible science-denier president.
    - mdoms 6y ago
      Half a million dead Americans. Fair to say what you're doing didn't work.
      - snapetom 6y ago
        "the population adjusted mortality." I don't know why this is so hard to understand, and I'd expect a HN audience to understand how proportions work instead of just parroting hyperbole.
      - spookthesunset 6y ago
        > Half a million dead Americans. One of the hardest challenges of leadership is resisting the urge to DO SOMETHING when crisis happens. > Fair to say what you're doing didn't work. And yet western nations keep trying the same failed policies over and over again and getting the same results.
systemvoltage 6y ago
NZ population is 4.9 million people. That’s half the size of SF Bay Area. How is this a fair comparison?