6 ms·

It's not even a perfect analogy but I was instantly reminded of an episode of TNG where the Enterprise is booby trapped inside an ancient device that amplifies

It's not even a perfect analogy but I was instantly reminded of an episode of TNG where the Enterprise is booby trapped inside an ancient device that amplifies and redirects their momentum towards them as radiation (hurting the crew) and the ship cannot move. There is a way to quickly move the ship but it means handing control over to the computer and only has a 50% success rate. Failure means death. The crew refuses to hand over control to a computer* and, add a little Deus Ex Machina, and they determine that very slow thruster maneuvers could also free them. They do it old school, with skill and human (Picard's) intuition. Tada - I honestly instantly re-experienced this episode when reading that title; there's nothing wrong with analyzing data, in fact, I probably would and the article isn't suggesting a machine write headlines, but it feels like writing for humans should feel human and not be machine optimized... I realize I've just been rambling, probably connected with no one else on the forum but I've typed all this, so I'm submitting it.

enkid 6y ago
The interesting thing is when machines will write something that feels more human than anything humanity could write. I believe that will happen sooner than people think.
- willhinsa 6y ago
  > more human than anything humanity could write Made me think of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyO18QrJ3zw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyO18QrJ3zw (White Zombie - More Human Than Human, referencing PKD's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?")
- ahepp 6y ago
  Isnt that just AGI? I'm not gonna hold my breath.
  - TheAceOfHearts 6y ago
    We've made huge strides with GPT-3, which has arguably already surpassed at least some percentage of the humans with its writing capabilities.
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      Which is maybe not too hard, since quite some percentage of humans still cannot write at all.
  - Groxx 6y ago
    TBH I don't think humans are creative enough in bulk to require AGI to sound human. Individuals checking individuals: yeah, you can detect non-intelligence. But if I told you half of all buzzfeed headlines are machine-written... would you believe it?
    - grawprog 6y ago
      >But if I told you half of all buzzfeed headlines are machine-written... would you believe it? Honestly, yeah. Buzzfeed headlines aren't exactly the most creative or hmmm...deep?...meaningful? There's only so many ways you can write '10 reasons why x does y and that's bad' Or 'Omfg x just happened, better y right now.'
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Isnt that just AGI? I'm not gonna hold my breath. Or it could just be a fluke random AI achievement. It will still be humans judging it as "more human than anything humanity could write" or not.
- fttx_ 6y ago
  Human written headlines are already being optimized in roughly the same way that machines would go about it, and using roughly the same data, too. Marketers have just been training ourselves to think like a statistical model.
mrzimmerman 6y ago
I absolutely love that episode. Any TNG story that features Picard being exited about archaeology is usually a great one. But I agree with your point. It’s not bad to write with computer consumption in mind, unless it loses the core focus which is that a human needs to read and connect with the content, and that probably take a human to do it (at least at the moment).
- hinkley 6y ago
  > Any TNG story that features Picard being excited about archaeology is usually a great one. I've never been able to articulate how disappointed I was that the writers made Picard retire to the family vinyard. Nothing matches the thrill of preventing a galactic war but we got little pictures of other interests he might have and just sit around growing grapes. Literally going back where he came from after an incomparable career. The holodeck episodes also hinted at other of his interests. I recall a sailing ship and something about being a detective? They did something very similar with Kirk and Riker although in Riker's case they gave a plot device for him making that choice.
brador 6y ago
Episode name is STNG booby trap.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
To continue your tangent: > The crew refuses to hand over control to a computer Star Trek universe lives in this strange place of being on the very cusp of technological singularity, edging on the threshold and yet not crossing it. Both in TOS and TNG era, their computers are so advanced they keep accidentally creating sentient AIs[0]. And yet, whenever that happens, the AIs are met with apprehension; Starfleet, in particular, would like to see them gone. In some cases, the protagonists stand against the zeitgeist and fight for the rights of digital sentience, but in others, they're desperate to put the cat back in the bag. In-universe, I explain it to myself like this: the society of Star Trek is afraid. They do not understand their technology at all. All the scientific and engineering knowledge people in Star Trek demonstrate so frequently[1], it's all in context of what computers tell them. They almost never look at raw data, they almost never deal with raw reality. They grudgingly accept this state, but do not want to make that last step and actually let computers run things. Out of universe, it's obviously because Star Trek was meant to be a humanist story - the adventure of humanity, exploring the universe and becoming a mature, respectable, good people. Anything that threatens it, anything that would immediately turn humans into NPCs, dethrone them from the role of protagonists, is shunned in the series. That's why both artificial intelligence and genetic augmentation receive such negative treatment, a glaring exception in the otherwise inclusive and forward-thinking show. Circling back a bit - I think our real-world society is approaching the level of "too smart technology", and we're going to become afraid too. And unfortunately, developments like this article aren't the kind that would happen in a Federation research facility - they read as something straight from Ferenginar. Our civilization is not proto-Federation, it's more of a weird blend of Ferengi Alliance and Cardassian Union. -- [0] - See e.g. "Emergence" (TNG: 7x23) and "Elementary, Dear Data" (TNG: 2x03) for Enterprise D's computer forking off sentient AIs, "Evolution" (TNG 3x01) and "Quality of Life" (TNG 6x09) for Federation robots accidentally becoming sentient, "The Offspring" (TNG 3x16) for how easy it is to fork Data, "The Ultimate Computer" (TOS 2x24) for what happened when they let a too-smart AI run the ship for once - and that's not counting all the cases where sentient life was created with involvement of alien entities or objects. [1] - One thing I love about this show is that competence is considered table stakes. Everyone, whether they're Starfleet, a Federation civilian or a member of non-Federation species, is educated, curious, good at what they do, and expects the same qualities of everyone else. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the real world.
hinkley 6y ago
I had forgotten about that scene. I wonder if the authors of The Expanse were consciously or unconsciously riffing on that. Writing truly original stuff is hard.

enkid 6y ago

The interesting thing is when machines will write something that feels more human than anything humanity could write. I believe that will happen sooner than people think.

willhinsa 6y ago
> more human than anything humanity could write Made me think of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyO18QrJ3zw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyO18QrJ3zw (White Zombie - More Human Than Human, referencing PKD's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?")
ahepp 6y ago
Isnt that just AGI? I'm not gonna hold my breath.
- TheAceOfHearts 6y ago
  We've made huge strides with GPT-3, which has arguably already surpassed at least some percentage of the humans with its writing capabilities.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    Which is maybe not too hard, since quite some percentage of humans still cannot write at all.
- Groxx 6y ago
  TBH I don't think humans are creative enough in bulk to require AGI to sound human. Individuals checking individuals: yeah, you can detect non-intelligence. But if I told you half of all buzzfeed headlines are machine-written... would you believe it?
  - grawprog 6y ago
    >But if I told you half of all buzzfeed headlines are machine-written... would you believe it? Honestly, yeah. Buzzfeed headlines aren't exactly the most creative or hmmm...deep?...meaningful? There's only so many ways you can write '10 reasons why x does y and that's bad' Or 'Omfg x just happened, better y right now.'
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Isnt that just AGI? I'm not gonna hold my breath. Or it could just be a fluke random AI achievement. It will still be humans judging it as "more human than anything humanity could write" or not.
fttx_ 6y ago
Human written headlines are already being optimized in roughly the same way that machines would go about it, and using roughly the same data, too. Marketers have just been training ourselves to think like a statistical model.

mrzimmerman 6y ago

I absolutely love that episode. Any TNG story that features Picard being exited about archaeology is usually a great one. But I agree with your point. It’s not bad to write with computer consumption in mind, unless it loses the core focus which is that a human needs to read and connect with the content, and that probably take a human to do it (at least at the moment).

hinkley 6y ago
> Any TNG story that features Picard being excited about archaeology is usually a great one. I've never been able to articulate how disappointed I was that the writers made Picard retire to the family vinyard. Nothing matches the thrill of preventing a galactic war but we got little pictures of other interests he might have and just sit around growing grapes. Literally going back where he came from after an incomparable career. The holodeck episodes also hinted at other of his interests. I recall a sailing ship and something about being a detective? They did something very similar with Kirk and Riker although in Riker's case they gave a plot device for him making that choice.

brador 6y ago

Episode name is STNG booby trap.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

To continue your tangent: > The crew refuses to hand over control to a computer Star Trek universe lives in this strange place of being on the very cusp of technological singularity, edging on the threshold and yet not crossing it. Both in TOS and TNG era, their computers are so advanced they keep accidentally creating sentient AIs[0]. And yet, whenever that happens, the AIs are met with apprehension; Starfleet, in particular, would like to see them gone. In some cases, the protagonists stand against the zeitgeist and fight for the rights of digital sentience, but in others, they're desperate to put the cat back in the bag. In-universe, I explain it to myself like this: the society of Star Trek is afraid. They do not understand their technology at all. All the scientific and engineering knowledge people in Star Trek demonstrate so frequently[1], it's all in context of what computers tell them. They almost never look at raw data, they almost never deal with raw reality. They grudgingly accept this state, but do not want to make that last step and actually let computers run things. Out of universe, it's obviously because Star Trek was meant to be a humanist story - the adventure of humanity, exploring the universe and becoming a mature, respectable, good people. Anything that threatens it, anything that would immediately turn humans into NPCs, dethrone them from the role of protagonists, is shunned in the series. That's why both artificial intelligence and genetic augmentation receive such negative treatment, a glaring exception in the otherwise inclusive and forward-thinking show. Circling back a bit - I think our real-world society is approaching the level of "too smart technology", and we're going to become afraid too. And unfortunately, developments like this article aren't the kind that would happen in a Federation research facility - they read as something straight from Ferenginar. Our civilization is not proto-Federation, it's more of a weird blend of Ferengi Alliance and Cardassian Union. -- [0] - See e.g. "Emergence" (TNG: 7x23) and "Elementary, Dear Data" (TNG: 2x03) for Enterprise D's computer forking off sentient AIs, "Evolution" (TNG 3x01) and "Quality of Life" (TNG 6x09) for Federation robots accidentally becoming sentient, "The Offspring" (TNG 3x16) for how easy it is to fork Data, "The Ultimate Computer" (TOS 2x24) for what happened when they let a too-smart AI run the ship for once - and that's not counting all the cases where sentient life was created with involvement of alien entities or objects. [1] - One thing I love about this show is that competence is considered table stakes. Everyone, whether they're Starfleet, a Federation civilian or a member of non-Federation species, is educated, curious, good at what they do, and expects the same qualities of everyone else. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the real world.

hinkley 6y ago

I had forgotten about that scene. I wonder if the authors of The Expanse were consciously or unconsciously riffing on that. Writing truly original stuff is hard.