4 ms·

Isn't this just embarrassing? A country that sent people to the moon decades ago and spends 2,600 USD per inhabitant per year on their military can't even feed

Isn't this just embarrassing? A country that sent people to the moon decades ago and spends 2,600 USD per inhabitant per year on their military can't even feed their people today? Excuse me but what the fuck.

maxerickson 6y ago
It's not that we can't, we choose not to. Like the only reason that children get shamed for not having money for school lunch is because some people like it that way. There's no lack of resources. This is more than embarrassing.
- sm4rk0 6y ago
  But the USA are the embodiment of democracy. How can't you choose something better? /s
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Because a lot of people believe that if you're hungry, it's because you're stupid, lazy, or morally deficient, and thus deserve to be hungry. I suspect you think I'm joking. I'm not. "Work is better than welfare" is a common refrain. Here it is on a state government web site: https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workfirst/11-overview https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workf... It's widely considered that if you feed people for free, they will have no incentive to work. They will live off of your effort, have more children who will learn from their parents that work isn't required, and possibly commit crimes to obtain more. There is a genuine fear that they will literally lead more comfortable lives than you do by working. Again, I suspect you think I'm exaggerating, or that this is an extreme minority opinion. This is a very common opinion among Americans -- effectively universal among conservatives, and significant among progressives. We don't choose better because the things that you think of as "better" are supported by only a minority of Americans. Most Americans think it will make us lazy, weak, and stupid.
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      This is like the ultimate example of this, coincidentally at the very beginning of the pandemic (before anyone could know how bad it would be) the previous administration proposed to cut SNAP, or what is commonly called food stamps by ~30%: https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-2021-budget-would-cut-food-assistance-for-millions-and https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-202... It would also make work requirements for adults to be eligible.
    - kbelder 6y ago
      You don't think work is better than welfare (at least for anybody that's capable of work)? I find that weird, and a little sad.
      - fl0wenol 6y ago
        I think the point is that people want to be useful, especially if they're good at something. If people can't work (for whatever reason), we really shouldn't be trying to make them. That just burdens their coworkers/peers with their lack of productivity and/or bad attitudes. We need to abandon these protestant values because they're not doing anyone any good.
      - maxerickson 6y ago
        I don't want to speak for the other poster, but school lunch programs are a pretty stupid place to exercise this preference. Kids do better in school when they aren't hungry, there, we don't need to discuss what incentives their parents should have because there is a good reason to feed them.
      - lazyasciiart 6y ago
        That's a biiiiig caveat you added there. I think that a guarantee of having enough money to feed yourself is better than just about any other option. I think people individually and collectively benefit from others holding jobs, but they can also benefit from unpaid activities like family caregiving. I think the idea that having jobs is good but nobody would do it if they didn't have to, and therefore it is good to threaten people with hunger until they are motivated enough to get one, is absolutely terrible.
  - mbrodersen 6y ago
    USA stopped being a democracy a long time ago. It is a country run by large corporations and billionaires. If you want to experience well functioning democracies then you need to look at European countries like Norway, Denmark, and Sweden.
throwawaysea 6y ago
We do fund programs to feed people - for example the federal food stamps program, which is formally known as SNAP (https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assista...). Around 10.5% of households in the US experience food insecurity, a term that includes both households with uncertainty but no disruption to eating patterns (for example households successfully relying on federal food assistance programs), and also households that experienced disruption to food patterns at some point in the year (at least once). The definitions of these terms are at the USDA website (https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...), and there we see 4.1% experienced "very low food security" in 2019, meaning they experienced disruption to normal eating patterns at least once during the year. SNAP covers 11% of Americans, and its covered benefits were expanded by 40% at the start of the pandemic (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-the-u-s-by-the-numbers https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-...) - so it's not like no effort was put into trying to manage food insecurity under the pandemic. However, we don't have very precise metrics on how well people are covered by SNAP. Because the definition of "very low food insecurity" includes those with disruption to eating patterns at least once in a given year (from self-reported surveys), we don't have measures for sustained malnutrition or hunger.
bpodgursky 6y ago
> “It got really ugly,” said Silvia Baca Garcia, 33, a Phoenix resident from Honduras who scrambled to feed her three children and granddaughter during months of unemployment caused by the viral outbreak. “It had been a lot easier when my two boys were in school and getting their hot breakfasts and lunches everyday.” It's not explicitly stated, but many of these examples are very, very likely to be non-legal immigrants, who do not qualify for SNAP aka food stamps. That is a huge political hairball. I'd be pretty surprised if many citizens fell into a similar category. (with older adults I'm not sure what's going on, but my guess is communication or service literacy problems are a large part of it. ie, just getting people registered who don't know that they are eligible.)
- lazyasciiart 6y ago
  Why would that example not be someone on food stamps? SNAP is not that much money, and it's obviously being stretched a lot further when she suddenly had an extra 40 meals per week to provide. This affected tons of citizens - that's why the USDA approved and funded school lunch replacements, like central pickup points and in some places lunch deliveries.
bhupy 6y ago
That same country is ranked higher in food security than several other high quality of life industrial nations in the world: https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index
oh_sigh 6y ago
Did you read the same article I did? Because it seemed to be talking about all the programs that exist that feed people. Is your issue that sometimes private groups do it, and sometimes the government does it, and you would just rather have the government do it all?

maxerickson 6y ago

It's not that we can't, we choose not to. Like the only reason that children get shamed for not having money for school lunch is because some people like it that way. There's no lack of resources. This is more than embarrassing.

sm4rk0 6y ago
But the USA are the embodiment of democracy. How can't you choose something better? /s
- jfengel 6y ago
  Because a lot of people believe that if you're hungry, it's because you're stupid, lazy, or morally deficient, and thus deserve to be hungry. I suspect you think I'm joking. I'm not. "Work is better than welfare" is a common refrain. Here it is on a state government web site: https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workfirst/11-overview https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/chapter-1-engaging-parents-workf... It's widely considered that if you feed people for free, they will have no incentive to work. They will live off of your effort, have more children who will learn from their parents that work isn't required, and possibly commit crimes to obtain more. There is a genuine fear that they will literally lead more comfortable lives than you do by working. Again, I suspect you think I'm exaggerating, or that this is an extreme minority opinion. This is a very common opinion among Americans -- effectively universal among conservatives, and significant among progressives. We don't choose better because the things that you think of as "better" are supported by only a minority of Americans. Most Americans think it will make us lazy, weak, and stupid.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    This is like the ultimate example of this, coincidentally at the very beginning of the pandemic (before anyone could know how bad it would be) the previous administration proposed to cut SNAP, or what is commonly called food stamps by ~30%: https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-2021-budget-would-cut-food-assistance-for-millions-and https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/presidents-202... It would also make work requirements for adults to be eligible.
  - kbelder 6y ago
    You don't think work is better than welfare (at least for anybody that's capable of work)? I find that weird, and a little sad.
    - fl0wenol 6y ago
      I think the point is that people want to be useful, especially if they're good at something. If people can't work (for whatever reason), we really shouldn't be trying to make them. That just burdens their coworkers/peers with their lack of productivity and/or bad attitudes. We need to abandon these protestant values because they're not doing anyone any good.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      I don't want to speak for the other poster, but school lunch programs are a pretty stupid place to exercise this preference. Kids do better in school when they aren't hungry, there, we don't need to discuss what incentives their parents should have because there is a good reason to feed them.
    - lazyasciiart 6y ago
      That's a biiiiig caveat you added there. I think that a guarantee of having enough money to feed yourself is better than just about any other option. I think people individually and collectively benefit from others holding jobs, but they can also benefit from unpaid activities like family caregiving. I think the idea that having jobs is good but nobody would do it if they didn't have to, and therefore it is good to threaten people with hunger until they are motivated enough to get one, is absolutely terrible.
- mbrodersen 6y ago
  USA stopped being a democracy a long time ago. It is a country run by large corporations and billionaires. If you want to experience well functioning democracies then you need to look at European countries like Norway, Denmark, and Sweden.

throwawaysea 6y ago

We do fund programs to feed people - for example the federal food stamps program, which is formally known as SNAP (https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assista...). Around 10.5% of households in the US experience food insecurity, a term that includes both households with uncertainty but no disruption to eating patterns (for example households successfully relying on federal food assistance programs), and also households that experienced disruption to food patterns at some point in the year (at least once). The definitions of these terms are at the USDA website (https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us/key-statistics-graphics.aspx https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...), and there we see 4.1% experienced "very low food security" in 2019, meaning they experienced disruption to normal eating patterns at least once during the year. SNAP covers 11% of Americans, and its covered benefits were expanded by 40% at the start of the pandemic (https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-the-u-s-by-the-numbers https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-...) - so it's not like no effort was put into trying to manage food insecurity under the pandemic. However, we don't have very precise metrics on how well people are covered by SNAP. Because the definition of "very low food insecurity" includes those with disruption to eating patterns at least once in a given year (from self-reported surveys), we don't have measures for sustained malnutrition or hunger.

bpodgursky 6y ago

> “It got really ugly,” said Silvia Baca Garcia, 33, a Phoenix resident from Honduras who scrambled to feed her three children and granddaughter during months of unemployment caused by the viral outbreak. “It had been a lot easier when my two boys were in school and getting their hot breakfasts and lunches everyday.” It's not explicitly stated, but many of these examples are very, very likely to be non-legal immigrants, who do not qualify for SNAP aka food stamps. That is a huge political hairball. I'd be pretty surprised if many citizens fell into a similar category. (with older adults I'm not sure what's going on, but my guess is communication or service literacy problems are a large part of it. ie, just getting people registered who don't know that they are eligible.)

lazyasciiart 6y ago
Why would that example not be someone on food stamps? SNAP is not that much money, and it's obviously being stretched a lot further when she suddenly had an extra 40 meals per week to provide. This affected tons of citizens - that's why the USDA approved and funded school lunch replacements, like central pickup points and in some places lunch deliveries.

bhupy 6y ago

That same country is ranked higher in food security than several other high quality of life industrial nations in the world: https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index https://foodsecurityindex.eiu.com/Index

oh_sigh 6y ago

Did you read the same article I did? Because it seemed to be talking about all the programs that exist that feed people. Is your issue that sometimes private groups do it, and sometimes the government does it, and you would just rather have the government do it all?