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If we had to play this thought experiment out, what cities could be rebuilt incrementally (half of it first)? Obviously the major ones would not be a good candi

If we had to play this thought experiment out, what cities could be rebuilt incrementally (half of it first)? Obviously the major ones would not be a good candidate. There must be one. If infrastructure is the problem then you must at some point face the music and pay the infrastructure debt. Otherwise you are basically not serious about moving forward. If one city gets rebuilt and becomes an economic magnet, then that should provide enough political/social capital to roll out more new cities.

klyrs 6y ago
Let's do LA first, it's atrociously inefficient
- imtringued 6y ago
  The ones in power like it that way. With India at least you have the pretense that it is a developing country.
perryizgr8 6y ago
> There must be one. I think tier 2 cities like Pune and Bangalore are good candidates. They are both expanding like crazy. It will be easy (not really, but easier) to build out the new developments with next-gen infrastructure. Once the new areas are built up and show their superiority over a few years, the older ones will be upgraded due to public pressure.
- kamaal 6y ago
  As some one born and raised in Bangalore, These kind of projections have been done for long. They don't happen, and there's lots of reasons for that. For starters I honestly believe to have genuine upgrade of infrastructure and living standards, you need to increase people's income levels. While there's steady upwards income mobility in Bangalore, it's still no where near to cause leap frog progress. The remainder of reasons go beyond the scope of discussion of a small HN comment. They have lots to do with insane levels of corruption, and socio-economic attitudes of people. Enough money already exists, is sanctioned and spent to leap frog infrastructure to DisneyLand levels. But nearly negligible actually gets spent, needless to say the dishonesty in quality of work done. Beyond this we just need to acknowledge nearly everyone here(including the common man walking on the street) is corrupt and just wants to loot and scoot at the expense of destroying things for everyone. The other part just continues. Bangalore is not even a city, its really more like a mix of at-least 4 districts, gradually absorbed in to the original 'Bangalore' city. People will keep coming into the city, and jobs keep arriving. Since the already dismal state of spending, and progress. No new cities can be built in other places, so people continue to arrive. Real estate prices go up, there is no where near Sanitation infrastructure, or Electricity or even roads. But investors keep buying out lands a decade in advance. And people with no discipline or inclination to play this game just have to pay up high rents or pay 2 - 5 times the cost of a home. All this for access to schools, hospitals, career etc.
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    > nearly everyone here(including the common man walking on the street) is corrupt and just wants to loot and scoot at the expense of destroying things for everyone I agree with most of your comment, but I refuse to believe this is true. Almost everyone I have personally met in the city (from the auto drivers to shopkeepers to policemen to businessmen) was well-meaning and well-behaved, with an intelligent, nuanced outlook and understanding of common problems we all face. The problems in our society are systemic, not because "people are bad". People are (in general) good and law abiding. For example, a common conundrum I've heard about is that in any restaurant that serves alcohol, the customs/excise dept requires there to be only one exit/entry. However, fire safety code calls for multiple exits. So what is the restaurant owner to do?? He has to bribe the safety inspector, or the customs inspector, or more commonly both. The owner is not a bad, corrupt person. The inspectors are not bad, corrupt persons. The people who drafted the various codes did not draft them with an aim to encourage corruption. But combined together, all this causes the problems we see.
    - kamaal 6y ago
      I'm glad you had good experience in our city. But its always a little entertaining to hear naive job tourists describing the city this way. Devil is always in details. >>The problems in our society are systemic, not because "people are bad". People are (in general) good and law abiding. No. Actually people are bad. Parents line up their kids for civil services exam cram schools, because civil services have ...err... bribe income potential You know people are genuinely evil when they want their kids to grow up and become corrupt, cheat and steal. Basically people don't want their kids to be pick pockets in a bus. They want them to dress up well, sit on a table and pick pockets in a sub registrar office or while approving a road tarring contract. But they aspire their kids to become thieves nevertheless.
      - astatine 6y ago
        I thought I was cynical about the city, but your comment leaves my dull-grey feeling positively bright and sunny. Most people in the city, and indeed across the country or the world for that matter, want a decent life for themselves. At least in Bangalore, government jobs are not the best option for that. Economics dictates that one needs to go very high up in the government service to out-earn a regular, private-sector job. Since most people realize they will not make it that far, it is far easy to get a better life here and now by taking a private sector job - or even be a new-gen gig worker. I do not actually see everyone wanting themselves - or their kids - to just become corrupt babus.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

klyrs 6y ago

Let's do LA first, it's atrociously inefficient

imtringued 6y ago
The ones in power like it that way. With India at least you have the pretense that it is a developing country.

perryizgr8 6y ago

> There must be one. I think tier 2 cities like Pune and Bangalore are good candidates. They are both expanding like crazy. It will be easy (not really, but easier) to build out the new developments with next-gen infrastructure. Once the new areas are built up and show their superiority over a few years, the older ones will be upgraded due to public pressure.

kamaal 6y ago
As some one born and raised in Bangalore, These kind of projections have been done for long. They don't happen, and there's lots of reasons for that. For starters I honestly believe to have genuine upgrade of infrastructure and living standards, you need to increase people's income levels. While there's steady upwards income mobility in Bangalore, it's still no where near to cause leap frog progress. The remainder of reasons go beyond the scope of discussion of a small HN comment. They have lots to do with insane levels of corruption, and socio-economic attitudes of people. Enough money already exists, is sanctioned and spent to leap frog infrastructure to DisneyLand levels. But nearly negligible actually gets spent, needless to say the dishonesty in quality of work done. Beyond this we just need to acknowledge nearly everyone here(including the common man walking on the street) is corrupt and just wants to loot and scoot at the expense of destroying things for everyone. The other part just continues. Bangalore is not even a city, its really more like a mix of at-least 4 districts, gradually absorbed in to the original 'Bangalore' city. People will keep coming into the city, and jobs keep arriving. Since the already dismal state of spending, and progress. No new cities can be built in other places, so people continue to arrive. Real estate prices go up, there is no where near Sanitation infrastructure, or Electricity or even roads. But investors keep buying out lands a decade in advance. And people with no discipline or inclination to play this game just have to pay up high rents or pay 2 - 5 times the cost of a home. All this for access to schools, hospitals, career etc.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  > nearly everyone here(including the common man walking on the street) is corrupt and just wants to loot and scoot at the expense of destroying things for everyone I agree with most of your comment, but I refuse to believe this is true. Almost everyone I have personally met in the city (from the auto drivers to shopkeepers to policemen to businessmen) was well-meaning and well-behaved, with an intelligent, nuanced outlook and understanding of common problems we all face. The problems in our society are systemic, not because "people are bad". People are (in general) good and law abiding. For example, a common conundrum I've heard about is that in any restaurant that serves alcohol, the customs/excise dept requires there to be only one exit/entry. However, fire safety code calls for multiple exits. So what is the restaurant owner to do?? He has to bribe the safety inspector, or the customs inspector, or more commonly both. The owner is not a bad, corrupt person. The inspectors are not bad, corrupt persons. The people who drafted the various codes did not draft them with an aim to encourage corruption. But combined together, all this causes the problems we see.
  - kamaal 6y ago
    I'm glad you had good experience in our city. But its always a little entertaining to hear naive job tourists describing the city this way. Devil is always in details. >>The problems in our society are systemic, not because "people are bad". People are (in general) good and law abiding. No. Actually people are bad. Parents line up their kids for civil services exam cram schools, because civil services have ...err... bribe income potential You know people are genuinely evil when they want their kids to grow up and become corrupt, cheat and steal. Basically people don't want their kids to be pick pockets in a bus. They want them to dress up well, sit on a table and pick pockets in a sub registrar office or while approving a road tarring contract. But they aspire their kids to become thieves nevertheless.
    - astatine 6y ago
      I thought I was cynical about the city, but your comment leaves my dull-grey feeling positively bright and sunny. Most people in the city, and indeed across the country or the world for that matter, want a decent life for themselves. At least in Bangalore, government jobs are not the best option for that. Economics dictates that one needs to go very high up in the government service to out-earn a regular, private-sector job. Since most people realize they will not make it that far, it is far easy to get a better life here and now by taking a private sector job - or even be a new-gen gig worker. I do not actually see everyone wanting themselves - or their kids - to just become corrupt babus.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]