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Apple quality and design, especially in UI, has been steadily declining for over a decade. This is just another example. Unfortunately the alternatives are ev

Apple quality and design, especially in UI, has been steadily declining for over a decade. This is just another example. Unfortunately the alternatives are even worse.

tempodox 6y ago
Steve Jobs isn't there any more to slap it in their face and tell 'em it sucks.
- CharlesW 6y ago
  Jobs wasn't immune from the occasional bad choice. (Before you ask, I have personal knowledge that this was his choice.) http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm
  - 1-6 6y ago
    The QuickTime Player wasn't that bad considering that all other media players like boxes and the best 2nd place looked like RealPlayer. Taste shifts over time and display technologies also add to our preference. It may be bad today but back then, we wanted the UI on computers to look like real electronics with a 'brushed aluminum' material finish.
    - CharlesW 6y ago
      Having been near the epicenter of it, this was more than just a "skeuomorphism was in" thing. It was a complete aesthetic and functional nightmare at the time. Apple employees, customers, developers, and press were horrified. https://www.salon.com/1999/09/30/quicktime/ https://www.salon.com/1999/09/30/quicktime/ That being said, I understand that sometimes one needs to push boundaries of taste in order to make advances. I'm just sad that QuickTime Player had to be one of the sacrificial pikes upon which skeuomorphism died.
  - ksec 6y ago
    Yes, plenty of it. But one of the gift I think Steve had was to completely change course once he acknowledge something as wrong. Whether that is persuaded by someone he trust or the market. Now no one at Apple has that intuition.
- rchaud 6y ago
  Steve Jobs would also have been a relatively old man, whose favourite artists are still recording music the same way the were in the '60s and '70s. His design choices are unlikely to resemble that of the average consumer today.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Product Person running the show vs a Logistics Person.
minikites 6y ago
>Unfortunately the alternatives are even worse. I think this is becoming less and less true. I think Mac OS isn't as good as people say it is and Windows is better than people say it is. I can't speak either way to desktop Linux.
- jolux 6y ago
  Call me when Windows has fewer than three control panels.
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    that takes less then 12 seconds to load. Or is it just me?
    - drewzero1 6y ago
      No, I've definitely had some control panels take a long time to populate. Depends on the machine and the day for me.
  - mitchdoogle 6y ago
    I rarely look at the control panel. It's usually easier for me to type in what settings I'm looking for in the windows taskbar search and it pops up immediately. Although I can type in "Control panel" and go straight there as well. Seems like it may have been a while since you've used Windows.
    - jolux 6y ago
      I was a full time Windows developer (WinForms, WPF, and ASP.NET) for three years until January. I used Windows 10. Still hated it. The search worked sometimes, but that's no excuse for having more than one place to go to change system settings. Microsoft have not released a completed operating system since Windows XP.
      - mitchdoogle 6y ago
pilsetnieks 6y ago
That's just an unfounded blanket statement. There have been wild jumps in quality as well as incremental improvements and incremental deterioration in places. Take, for example, iOS 7 which came out 7 years ago. On the one hand it brought some sorely needed modernity, on the other, it replaced a well-polished, albeit dated, style. However, on its own UI-wise it was really bad. Subsequent releases have had tremendous improvements to its many faults while introducing others, and I can't see how that could be called "a steady decline."
- stock_toaster 6y ago
  In addition, I hypothesize that as existing users tend to age[1], that they typically desire less change. However, newer and/or younger users entering an ecosystem may desire other things, such as the appearance of modernity or newer stylings (eg. "Not your parent's OS"). MacOS 10.x has been around for 20 years now. iOS for 13 years. Even if you were to assume that the "core segment" was 20 to 40 year old working professionals (just an example), a huge cohort has moved into, and another out of, that segment over the past 10+ years! This is seen in many areas outside software, so I would imagine it exists here as well. [1]: Both age as in their physical age, as well as age as in a "have been users in this ecosystem longer" sense.
  - Nition 6y ago
    This doesn't affect your point but just a note; they're officially on MacOS 11 now.
amelius 6y ago
> Apple quality and design, especially in UI, has been steadily declining for over a decade. Remember when you had to make software updates through iTunes? This was probably the worst piece of UX ever in a mainstream OS, even worse than clicking "Start" to shut down the computer in Windows. So quality steadily declining is not an accurate description.
lacker 6y ago
The M1 laptops are pretty clearly their highest-quality laptops ever.
- hu3 6y ago
  Debatable. They are harder to repair than ever, they eat disk IO for breakfast as swap and there's no native Linux yet because Appe can't be bothered to move a finger to help in that front.

Apple quality and design, especially in UI, has been steadily declining for over a decade. This is just another example. Unfortunately the alternatives are even worse.

tempodox 6y ago

Steve Jobs isn't there any more to slap it in their face and tell 'em it sucks.

CharlesW 6y ago
Jobs wasn't immune from the occasional bad choice. (Before you ask, I have personal knowledge that this was his choice.) http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm
- 1-6 6y ago
  The QuickTime Player wasn't that bad considering that all other media players like boxes and the best 2nd place looked like RealPlayer. Taste shifts over time and display technologies also add to our preference. It may be bad today but back then, we wanted the UI on computers to look like real electronics with a 'brushed aluminum' material finish.
  - CharlesW 6y ago
    Having been near the epicenter of it, this was more than just a "skeuomorphism was in" thing. It was a complete aesthetic and functional nightmare at the time. Apple employees, customers, developers, and press were horrified. https://www.salon.com/1999/09/30/quicktime/ https://www.salon.com/1999/09/30/quicktime/ That being said, I understand that sometimes one needs to push boundaries of taste in order to make advances. I'm just sad that QuickTime Player had to be one of the sacrificial pikes upon which skeuomorphism died.
- ksec 6y ago
  Yes, plenty of it. But one of the gift I think Steve had was to completely change course once he acknowledge something as wrong. Whether that is persuaded by someone he trust or the market. Now no one at Apple has that intuition.
rchaud 6y ago
Steve Jobs would also have been a relatively old man, whose favourite artists are still recording music the same way the were in the '60s and '70s. His design choices are unlikely to resemble that of the average consumer today.
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
Product Person running the show vs a Logistics Person.

minikites 6y ago

>Unfortunately the alternatives are even worse. I think this is becoming less and less true. I think Mac OS isn't as good as people say it is and Windows is better than people say it is. I can't speak either way to desktop Linux.

jolux 6y ago
Call me when Windows has fewer than three control panels.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  that takes less then 12 seconds to load. Or is it just me?
  - drewzero1 6y ago
    No, I've definitely had some control panels take a long time to populate. Depends on the machine and the day for me.
- mitchdoogle 6y ago
  I rarely look at the control panel. It's usually easier for me to type in what settings I'm looking for in the windows taskbar search and it pops up immediately. Although I can type in "Control panel" and go straight there as well. Seems like it may have been a while since you've used Windows.
  - jolux 6y ago
    I was a full time Windows developer (WinForms, WPF, and ASP.NET) for three years until January. I used Windows 10. Still hated it. The search worked sometimes, but that's no excuse for having more than one place to go to change system settings. Microsoft have not released a completed operating system since Windows XP.
    - mitchdoogle 6y ago

pilsetnieks 6y ago

That's just an unfounded blanket statement. There have been wild jumps in quality as well as incremental improvements and incremental deterioration in places. Take, for example, iOS 7 which came out 7 years ago. On the one hand it brought some sorely needed modernity, on the other, it replaced a well-polished, albeit dated, style. However, on its own UI-wise it was really bad. Subsequent releases have had tremendous improvements to its many faults while introducing others, and I can't see how that could be called "a steady decline."

stock_toaster 6y ago
In addition, I hypothesize that as existing users tend to age[1], that they typically desire less change. However, newer and/or younger users entering an ecosystem may desire other things, such as the appearance of modernity or newer stylings (eg. "Not your parent's OS"). MacOS 10.x has been around for 20 years now. iOS for 13 years. Even if you were to assume that the "core segment" was 20 to 40 year old working professionals (just an example), a huge cohort has moved into, and another out of, that segment over the past 10+ years! This is seen in many areas outside software, so I would imagine it exists here as well. [1]: Both age as in their physical age, as well as age as in a "have been users in this ecosystem longer" sense.
- Nition 6y ago
  This doesn't affect your point but just a note; they're officially on MacOS 11 now.

amelius 6y ago

> Apple quality and design, especially in UI, has been steadily declining for over a decade. Remember when you had to make software updates through iTunes? This was probably the worst piece of UX ever in a mainstream OS, even worse than clicking "Start" to shut down the computer in Windows. So quality steadily declining is not an accurate description.

lacker 6y ago

The M1 laptops are pretty clearly their highest-quality laptops ever.

hu3 6y ago
Debatable. They are harder to repair than ever, they eat disk IO for breakfast as swap and there's no native Linux yet because Appe can't be bothered to move a finger to help in that front.