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Yes, I don’t think there is any argument you cannot simply assert against to the negative or nullify with the same argument against other kinds of organizations

Yes, I don’t think there is any argument you cannot simply assert against to the negative or nullify with the same argument against other kinds of organizations on the Internet.

asdff 6y ago
Oh come on, no need for this cynical sentence that gave me a headache just to parse in the afternoon :) The two big arguments I see against unions are 1. lazy workers 2. corruption And in the case of 1., I mean come on. Lazy workers are everywhere union or no. In the case of 2., yes this happens. Wage theft from the worker by management happens probably a lot more, on the other hand. It impacts at least 1/3 of minimum wage earners in cities like LA and Chicago, and for those who have experienced a pay violation on average they loose out on 12.5% of their actual paycheck (1). Just look at the second page of this report and see the horrors for the working poor in our country who are under very little labor protections; all of these issues would have been stymied by a union protecting labor. At least with a corrupt union you have some recourse where you can drum up internal support among similarly exploited people, and change your organization via vote. As a nonunion worker, in contrast, you can't do anything to enact change if management isn't playing ball with labor, short of quitting your job and losing any and all your benefits like healthcare in the process. 1. https://irle.ucla.edu/old/publications/documents/LAwagetheft-Milkman-Narro-110.pdf https://irle.ucla.edu/old/publications/documents/LAwagetheft...
- 1123581321 6y ago
  Sorry, yes, that wasn't the best written sentence. :) I wouldn't actually say the problem is laziness. Developers are famously lazy. It's more of a problem of malignantly wielded protected status. A helpful analogy to the non-unionized world might be a manager's pet employee or a nepotic hire. A bad union environment systemically rewards this in addition to reducing wages through dues and reduced opportunity for good workers. Wage theft is serious, but has enforcement paths independent of the presence of a union and if reform is needed, it should start there. I am sympathetic to the plight of the poor but they can be harmed by labor practices supposedly friendly to them.

Yes, I don’t think there is any argument you cannot simply assert against to the negative or nullify with the same argument against other kinds of organizations on the Internet.

asdff 6y ago

Oh come on, no need for this cynical sentence that gave me a headache just to parse in the afternoon :) The two big arguments I see against unions are 1. lazy workers 2. corruption And in the case of 1., I mean come on. Lazy workers are everywhere union or no. In the case of 2., yes this happens. Wage theft from the worker by management happens probably a lot more, on the other hand. It impacts at least 1/3 of minimum wage earners in cities like LA and Chicago, and for those who have experienced a pay violation on average they loose out on 12.5% of their actual paycheck (1). Just look at the second page of this report and see the horrors for the working poor in our country who are under very little labor protections; all of these issues would have been stymied by a union protecting labor. At least with a corrupt union you have some recourse where you can drum up internal support among similarly exploited people, and change your organization via vote. As a nonunion worker, in contrast, you can't do anything to enact change if management isn't playing ball with labor, short of quitting your job and losing any and all your benefits like healthcare in the process. 1. https://irle.ucla.edu/old/publications/documents/LAwagetheft-Milkman-Narro-110.pdf https://irle.ucla.edu/old/publications/documents/LAwagetheft...

1123581321 6y ago
Sorry, yes, that wasn't the best written sentence. :) I wouldn't actually say the problem is laziness. Developers are famously lazy. It's more of a problem of malignantly wielded protected status. A helpful analogy to the non-unionized world might be a manager's pet employee or a nepotic hire. A bad union environment systemically rewards this in addition to reducing wages through dues and reduced opportunity for good workers. Wage theft is serious, but has enforcement paths independent of the presence of a union and if reform is needed, it should start there. I am sympathetic to the plight of the poor but they can be harmed by labor practices supposedly friendly to them.