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To each his own. I enjoy simplicity on my phone, excellent battery life, and the odd game, as such, I use an iPhone. It doesn't mean that either way is right, b

To each his own. I enjoy simplicity on my phone, excellent battery life, and the odd game, as such, I use an iPhone. It doesn't mean that either way is right, but it also doesn't mean that Apple is destined to repeat their failures. Bare in mind that although Android outsells iPhone's, Apple still has 40% of the profit of the entire smartphone industry.

kenjackson 15y ago
Ppl always repeat the profit of Apple, but why? What exactly is that relevant to, unless you're a shareholder or Apple employee? Is it just a comment to indicate that Apple isn't about to go out of business? To each his own. This is really the important statement. Phones are in a state now that I think we can actually have 3 viable OSes in the market. I know families where the dad has a BB, the mom an iPhone, and a child an Android (or Sidekick back in the day), and no one cares. It's not like PCs. When I go and look at a WebOS device or WP7 I'm not worried about the fact that they have small market share. For the most part it doesn't matter that much to me as a consumer. Sure WP7 only has 20,000 apps. But unless you're Robert Scoble, you'll be more than happy (and if you're Robert Scoble, apps don't even count until you hit 500k). It's a very different world, and I think we'll see things evolve quite differently.
- YooLi 15y ago
  "Is it just a comment to indicate that Apple isn't about to go out of business?" Partially, and partially to indicate that the way Apple is doing things must be at least somewhat right and sustainable. Why is it so hard for Android manufacturers to release updates for their phones? Because they don't make enough on them to continue supporting them. They make money on new devices sales, so they keep churning out more new handsets.
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    partially to indicate that the way Apple is doing things must be at least somewhat right and sustainable. Just an odd concern for an end user, IMO. When I go to buy a car I don't look at the profits of Honda vs Ford. Sure you may not want a company that will go bankrupt, but even if they did the impact really isn't all that huge. Why is it so hard for Android manufacturers to release updates for their phones? Because they make deeply integrated skins. They have to reintegrate the skin with a new drop from Google -- not on their schedule, but on Google's (that's when customers start screaming for the update). Because they don't make enough on them to continue supporting them. They make money on new devices sales, so they keep churning out more new handsets. Everyone makes money on new device sales. The difference is if you get an iOS device -- Apple gets the profit. HTC/Samsung/Moto/LG/etc have to compete for the next sale, even if you've already decided it will be Android.
    - olivercameron 15y ago
      Of course you don't think about Apple's share of profit when you're buying the iPhone, but when you're discussing the iPhone's long term future, the fact it makes an immense amount of profit is very much relevant.
      - bad_user 15y ago
        To me, when discussing the long term future of an OS, a very valuable metric is how many companies are using it to build their hardware. Apple is ridding the wave, releasing kick-ass products one after another; but you never know how tomorrow will look like for Apple. On the other hand, if Samsung stops making Android devices or goes out of business, there are others to fill in. So it's not really so cut and dry.
    - YooLi 15y ago
      "Just an odd concern for an end user, IMO." About as odd as end users concerned about which OS has a more true multi-tasking implementation. Those who mention the profitability of iOS devices as a plus are probably about as numerous as those who mention multi-tasking. "Everyone makes money on new device sales." I think you misunderstood. I never said Android manufacturers aren't making money, I said they aren't making enough to support the device as long as people would like: "Because they don't make enough on them to continue supporting them."
      - seabee 15y ago
        "Those who mention the profitability of iOS devices as a plus are probably about as numerous as those who mention multi-tasking." These are both uncommon concerns, to be sure, but they're not both odd. The difference is that the former has no direct effect on the user experience, at best it's an enabler for continued updates. There might well be a use for the phone in which true multitasking is desired, if you need that use then wanting the feature is no more 'odd' than someone wanting a plumber's snake because they're a plumber.
        15y ago
- AllenKids 15y ago
  Because as a company profit is a very important goal if not the most important goal. RIM collapsed this quarter but for keen market watchers its fate was clearly shown when its profit per unite slipped with no significant unit gain. The same goes for Apple, when iPhone has to be sold at a discount but market share does not go up noticeably, Apple is in trouble. For now iPhone enjoys a better half of the entire industry profit while ARP goes up and defies seasonal fluctuation.
- protomyth 15y ago
  It's an indicator that a developer can sell premium programs. If they can make good profit the ecosystem could follow.
- floppydisk 15y ago
  The 40% is relevant because it means Apple is taking most of the smartphone profits and it's just one manufacturer. I think with the long term trends we will see Android gradually replace the dumbphone market. Low end hardware, fragmented versions across carriers, and low margins of return as time progresses. Apple is aiming at the upper end of the market and I think they're succeeding pretty well if the profit share is anything to by.
CoffeeDregs 15y ago
>Bare [sic] in mind that although Android outsells iPhone's, >Apple still has 40% of the profit of the entire >smartphone industry. Bear in mind that RIM probably has more profits in mobile than Google. Would you argue that profits as a metric is still useful in this case? Usually, unless there are serious switching costs (see Microsoft-of-the-90s), production learning curves (see Exxon), etc, excess profits invite high levels of competition and the mobile market seems pretty crazily competitive and innovative right now. (HTC 3D?! Gimmicky? Sure. Super cool? Totally!)
paul9290 15y ago
Excellent battery life? My iPhone lasts just as long as my girlfriend's Droid X2 does, which is a day if we are lucky. Currently yes the app store does have all the latest games and that makes sense as iPhone users were previous iTunes users. Unfortunately, i think Android draws more the non music buyers who used p2p and are looking for free ride - not all but a good majority. I think a useful study would be iPhone and their P2P usage(always, rarely - iTunes instead or never pirate iTunes buyer always) vs. Android users & their P2P usage(always, rarely - use iTunes instead or never pirate iTunes buyer always). I think you would see why apps are developed first for the iPhone and sometimes only for the iPhone. Even with a bigger market share Android developers are not making the mint iPhone developers have been and continue to make. iPhone owners are of a different mind-set/demographic (for the most part) i am thinking. Also Android's marketplace is a mess comparatively. Overall i was an Apple iPhone fanboy but the tons and tons of Android phones are outpacing Apple's prior innovations.
- ralfd 15y ago
  In my limited experince my iPhone 4 lasts up to twice as long as some phones of my friends. And iOS 5 sounds like it has many features you may want (notifications, wifi sync, Sync with iCloud). But speaking of todays sync: It is in the summary Tab when the iPhone is connected. No learning how to disable it, it is just there where you would guess it is.
- olivercameron 15y ago
  Then something is wrong with your iPhone. Many news sources[1] say the Droid X2 lasts literally hours (5 in this test), due to the multi-core processor. 1. http://www.laptopmag.com/review/cell-phones/motorola-droid-x2.aspx?page=2 http://www.laptopmag.com/review/cell-phones/motorola-droid-x...
  - Blarat 15y ago
    they ran a bettery test for 1 hour and extrapolated the result which gave: the X2 should last about 5 hours and 20 minutes on a charge and one important thing in the next line: and 5:39 for the average smartphone. So it's pretty much in line with what the parent posted...
dusklight 15y ago
As a consumer, why is that a good thing to you? This means that you know Apple is charging you substantially more than it cost them to make their product. Shouldn't this make you less trusting of Apple and their intentions instead?
- Steko 15y ago
  "As a consumer, why is that a good thing to you?" They can charge a high margin because of a lack of suitable replacements. That there is a lack of suitable replacements means the product (which consumers evidently highly value) very well might not exist if not for that company making it. Companies that make high quality products being rewarded with profit is something that encourages other companies to make high quality products. "Shouldn't this make you less trusting of Apple and their intentions instead?" No. My default assumption is that the intentions of every for profit company is to maximize their profits. Maximum profit determines the price a product will sell at and a company that sells at a price that minimizes profit will quickly find itself in bankruptcy court. Due to shifting exchange rates it might cost Apple 5 bucks more or less to make the exact same ipad next month and their profits will increase or decrease accordingly but that doesn't have any impact on the buyer who gets the exact same ipad.
- saturdaysaint 15y ago
  Your question about how this helps the consumer is well taken, but Apple is NOT charging consumers more. Apple makes most of the profit because the carriers pay a far higher subsidy to Apple than any other phone.
ZeroGravitas 15y ago
40% of smartphone manufacturer profit, not the entire industry which would include the networks and Microsoft and Google amongst others who profit from Android. And the consistent 2nd and 3rd place by this metric are Nokia and RIM, both gently falling below 20% each over the last year, who most people consider to be dead ducks.

kenjackson 15y ago

Ppl always repeat the profit of Apple, but why? What exactly is that relevant to, unless you're a shareholder or Apple employee? Is it just a comment to indicate that Apple isn't about to go out of business? To each his own. This is really the important statement. Phones are in a state now that I think we can actually have 3 viable OSes in the market. I know families where the dad has a BB, the mom an iPhone, and a child an Android (or Sidekick back in the day), and no one cares. It's not like PCs. When I go and look at a WebOS device or WP7 I'm not worried about the fact that they have small market share. For the most part it doesn't matter that much to me as a consumer. Sure WP7 only has 20,000 apps. But unless you're Robert Scoble, you'll be more than happy (and if you're Robert Scoble, apps don't even count until you hit 500k). It's a very different world, and I think we'll see things evolve quite differently.

YooLi 15y ago
"Is it just a comment to indicate that Apple isn't about to go out of business?" Partially, and partially to indicate that the way Apple is doing things must be at least somewhat right and sustainable. Why is it so hard for Android manufacturers to release updates for their phones? Because they don't make enough on them to continue supporting them. They make money on new devices sales, so they keep churning out more new handsets.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  partially to indicate that the way Apple is doing things must be at least somewhat right and sustainable. Just an odd concern for an end user, IMO. When I go to buy a car I don't look at the profits of Honda vs Ford. Sure you may not want a company that will go bankrupt, but even if they did the impact really isn't all that huge. Why is it so hard for Android manufacturers to release updates for their phones? Because they make deeply integrated skins. They have to reintegrate the skin with a new drop from Google -- not on their schedule, but on Google's (that's when customers start screaming for the update). Because they don't make enough on them to continue supporting them. They make money on new devices sales, so they keep churning out more new handsets. Everyone makes money on new device sales. The difference is if you get an iOS device -- Apple gets the profit. HTC/Samsung/Moto/LG/etc have to compete for the next sale, even if you've already decided it will be Android.
  - olivercameron 15y ago
    Of course you don't think about Apple's share of profit when you're buying the iPhone, but when you're discussing the iPhone's long term future, the fact it makes an immense amount of profit is very much relevant.
    - bad_user 15y ago
      To me, when discussing the long term future of an OS, a very valuable metric is how many companies are using it to build their hardware. Apple is ridding the wave, releasing kick-ass products one after another; but you never know how tomorrow will look like for Apple. On the other hand, if Samsung stops making Android devices or goes out of business, there are others to fill in. So it's not really so cut and dry.
  - YooLi 15y ago
    "Just an odd concern for an end user, IMO." About as odd as end users concerned about which OS has a more true multi-tasking implementation. Those who mention the profitability of iOS devices as a plus are probably about as numerous as those who mention multi-tasking. "Everyone makes money on new device sales." I think you misunderstood. I never said Android manufacturers aren't making money, I said they aren't making enough to support the device as long as people would like: "Because they don't make enough on them to continue supporting them."
    - seabee 15y ago
      "Those who mention the profitability of iOS devices as a plus are probably about as numerous as those who mention multi-tasking." These are both uncommon concerns, to be sure, but they're not both odd. The difference is that the former has no direct effect on the user experience, at best it's an enabler for continued updates. There might well be a use for the phone in which true multitasking is desired, if you need that use then wanting the feature is no more 'odd' than someone wanting a plumber's snake because they're a plumber.
      - 15y ago
AllenKids 15y ago
Because as a company profit is a very important goal if not the most important goal. RIM collapsed this quarter but for keen market watchers its fate was clearly shown when its profit per unite slipped with no significant unit gain. The same goes for Apple, when iPhone has to be sold at a discount but market share does not go up noticeably, Apple is in trouble. For now iPhone enjoys a better half of the entire industry profit while ARP goes up and defies seasonal fluctuation.
protomyth 15y ago
It's an indicator that a developer can sell premium programs. If they can make good profit the ecosystem could follow.
floppydisk 15y ago
The 40% is relevant because it means Apple is taking most of the smartphone profits and it's just one manufacturer. I think with the long term trends we will see Android gradually replace the dumbphone market. Low end hardware, fragmented versions across carriers, and low margins of return as time progresses. Apple is aiming at the upper end of the market and I think they're succeeding pretty well if the profit share is anything to by.

CoffeeDregs 15y ago

>Bare [sic] in mind that although Android outsells iPhone's, >Apple still has 40% of the profit of the entire >smartphone industry. Bear in mind that RIM probably has more profits in mobile than Google. Would you argue that profits as a metric is still useful in this case? Usually, unless there are serious switching costs (see Microsoft-of-the-90s), production learning curves (see Exxon), etc, excess profits invite high levels of competition and the mobile market seems pretty crazily competitive and innovative right now. (HTC 3D?! Gimmicky? Sure. Super cool? Totally!)

paul9290 15y ago

Excellent battery life? My iPhone lasts just as long as my girlfriend's Droid X2 does, which is a day if we are lucky. Currently yes the app store does have all the latest games and that makes sense as iPhone users were previous iTunes users. Unfortunately, i think Android draws more the non music buyers who used p2p and are looking for free ride - not all but a good majority. I think a useful study would be iPhone and their P2P usage(always, rarely - iTunes instead or never pirate iTunes buyer always) vs. Android users & their P2P usage(always, rarely - use iTunes instead or never pirate iTunes buyer always). I think you would see why apps are developed first for the iPhone and sometimes only for the iPhone. Even with a bigger market share Android developers are not making the mint iPhone developers have been and continue to make. iPhone owners are of a different mind-set/demographic (for the most part) i am thinking. Also Android's marketplace is a mess comparatively. Overall i was an Apple iPhone fanboy but the tons and tons of Android phones are outpacing Apple's prior innovations.

ralfd 15y ago
In my limited experince my iPhone 4 lasts up to twice as long as some phones of my friends. And iOS 5 sounds like it has many features you may want (notifications, wifi sync, Sync with iCloud). But speaking of todays sync: It is in the summary Tab when the iPhone is connected. No learning how to disable it, it is just there where you would guess it is.
olivercameron 15y ago
Then something is wrong with your iPhone. Many news sources[1] say the Droid X2 lasts literally hours (5 in this test), due to the multi-core processor. 1. http://www.laptopmag.com/review/cell-phones/motorola-droid-x2.aspx?page=2 http://www.laptopmag.com/review/cell-phones/motorola-droid-x...
- Blarat 15y ago
  they ran a bettery test for 1 hour and extrapolated the result which gave: the X2 should last about 5 hours and 20 minutes on a charge and one important thing in the next line: and 5:39 for the average smartphone. So it's pretty much in line with what the parent posted...

dusklight 15y ago

As a consumer, why is that a good thing to you? This means that you know Apple is charging you substantially more than it cost them to make their product. Shouldn't this make you less trusting of Apple and their intentions instead?

Steko 15y ago
"As a consumer, why is that a good thing to you?" They can charge a high margin because of a lack of suitable replacements. That there is a lack of suitable replacements means the product (which consumers evidently highly value) very well might not exist if not for that company making it. Companies that make high quality products being rewarded with profit is something that encourages other companies to make high quality products. "Shouldn't this make you less trusting of Apple and their intentions instead?" No. My default assumption is that the intentions of every for profit company is to maximize their profits. Maximum profit determines the price a product will sell at and a company that sells at a price that minimizes profit will quickly find itself in bankruptcy court. Due to shifting exchange rates it might cost Apple 5 bucks more or less to make the exact same ipad next month and their profits will increase or decrease accordingly but that doesn't have any impact on the buyer who gets the exact same ipad.
saturdaysaint 15y ago
Your question about how this helps the consumer is well taken, but Apple is NOT charging consumers more. Apple makes most of the profit because the carriers pay a far higher subsidy to Apple than any other phone.

ZeroGravitas 15y ago

40% of smartphone manufacturer profit, not the entire industry which would include the networks and Microsoft and Google amongst others who profit from Android. And the consistent 2nd and 3rd place by this metric are Nokia and RIM, both gently falling below 20% each over the last year, who most people consider to be dead ducks.