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No one has been murdered in Norway so far this year
- sandworm101 6y agoOne must first define terms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Norwegian_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Norwegian_law) I am suprised to see that Norway's definiton is actually very broad, encompassing some killings that common law nations would not call murder (negligence). I do, now, appreciate that Norwegian law draws lines between intentional murder and planned murder. Common law (british) stops at intention, planning being irrelevant as you would generally be hanged either way. There has to be a historical basis for Norway's approach. Viking law?
- eitland 6y ago> There has to be a historical basis for Norway's approach. Viking law? Late but I think it is from Judaism via Christianity. I used to read a lot in the Bible when I was young (still read but not as much) and I think there are rules about intentional vs unintended killings in the old law, more specifically there are rules about cities of refugee where someone who has killed someone unintentionally can flee to. Viking law is more about blood revenge, at least in practice (I've read a fair bit of Snorre and other Icelandic stories as well when I was younger.)
- refurb 6y agoSingapore has had one murder in 2021 (also ~5M live there) but has a per capita murder rate 1/3rd that of Norway. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SGP/singapore/murder-homicide-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SGP/singapore/murder-h...
- moocowtruck 6y agolets all move to norway!!! ruin their record we will
- ddevault 6y agoMeanwhile we've had >1 homicide per day in 2021 in my home city of Philadelphia. https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/mapping-gun-violence/#/2021 https://controller.phila.gov/philadelphia-audits/mapping-gun...
- deadbytes 6y ago>85% of murders committed by blacks, the next highest ethic group only being 9% Now compare this to the demographics of Norway
- bigfudge 6y agoCan you give the breakdown by income too? There may be drug and other cultural issues in big inner city areas that are predominantly black, but my strong prior is that this is a poverty/ disadvantage effect as much as race.
- _ttg 6y agoWell, access to guns is a pretty big factor as well. Sub-Saharan Africa is just as poor or poorer than inner city US yet has way lower homicide rates
- poisonarena 6y agoHere in Israel, tons of gun access for young men and there is very little domestic gun violence.
- _ttg 6y agoI was proposing another factor to add to his thesis. Israel is a pretty rich country.
- bigfudge 6y agoI guess poverty relative to cost of living and median wage may also be relevant
- DoreenMichele 6y agoFrom the article: She warns that the positive development may turn once ...society reopens. (Because leaving an abusive relationship) is the setting in which most domestic murders take place. A lot of people seem to not know this: Leaving an abusive situation is the most dangerous time. You are most likely to be killed when you try to leave. Abusers don't think you have any rights. They don't think you deserve any respect. They see you as their personal property and it angers them for you to try to take that away from them. Abusers trend towards feeling like "If I can't have you, no one can have you." Edited to remove gendered language from the article quote, among other things.
- magicalhippo 6y agoHere's been some focus on this here last few years. About one in four murders are committed by a partner or ex-partner. Many of them have been in contact with the police in advance. A committee was formed to look into this and come with preventative measures[1], which recently released their conclusions[2]. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/har-gjennomgatt-19-drap---i-dag-kom-rapporten-1.15289223 https://www.nrk.no/sorlandet/har-gjennomgatt-19-drap---i-dag... [2]: https://www.regjeringen.no/contentassets/5f3dc96de14f443f869795a19088926a/no/pdfs/nou202020200017000dddpdfs.pdf https://www.regjeringen.no/contentassets/5f3dc96de14f443f869...
- temp0826 6y agoI do wonder about the suicide rate, with this in mind. (ie accepting stuck in some situation and ending it vs trying to get out and getting murdered in the process)
- DoreenMichele 6y agoI have no idea. I posted the comment as a sort of PSA a la "forewarned is forearmed." If you want to successfully leave an abusive relationship, you need to be aware of the risks and plan accordingly.
- adreamingsoul 6y agoaldri for sent å snu "never too late to turn around"
- calyth2018 6y agoIt's only March. What's that saying about counting chickens?
- cujo 6y agoI think you are (intentionally?) missing the point. Find another country of similar size with no murders for the last 3 months.
- jfax 6y agoSays in the article that Norway had on average, in previous years, 4 to 8 murders in the first three months of a year.
- max_ 6y agoNot an expert here. But don't scanadevians generally have one of the lowest crime rates year over year?
- thatwasunusual 6y agoI don't know why the article focuses so much on "the first X months." From 2010 through 2019, Norway had 298 victims of murder,[1] so 29.8 per year, or 2.5 per month, in average. Things usually "heat up" during the summer when more people are out and about. [1] https://www.politiet.no/globalassets/04-aktuelt-tall-og-fakta/drap/drapsoversikt-2019.pdf https://www.politiet.no/globalassets/04-aktuelt-tall-og-fakt..., excluding the 2011 terror attack.
- slacka 6y agoRelevant Onion article, "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens": https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527 https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-na... The Onion has published the article 17 times:(
- etangent 6y agoSwitzerland has 2 million privately owned guns per 8 million inhabitants, but AFAIK their murder rate is not stellar high.
- applecrazy 6y agoDoes it have to do with proper gun control or better access to mental health services?
- vmception 6y agoThe Swiss own guns for opposite reasons that Americans do. They own them because they trust their government or if that's too strong of a word, they are content with their ability to defend Switzerland for the government. Instead of defending themselves from the government. (But that sentiment exists too)
- floren 6y agoAnd you're saying that because Americans want to defend themselves from the government, that's why Americans kill each other so much? I don't see "Swiss trust their government" as a solid reason for their lower murder rate.
- vmception 6y agoIt's not the complete story, I'm not going to write a dissertation here. Just was aiming to show one stark contrast to show how broad the gun ownership reasoning can be, outside of American reasons.
- adventured 6y agoBy contrast, Baltimore - which has roughly 9%-10% the population of Norway - sees as many murders each year as Norway does every seven or eight years combined. An approximate 70 fold difference, give or take. Does Norway have open borders? I'd like to live there. No? Oh well.
- jfax 6y ago>Does Norway have open borders Norway is part of the Schengen area, yeah
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoNorway has better management.
- agency 6y agoThey also have a $1T+ (trillion not billion) sovereign wealth fund (from North Sea oil), the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world amounting to $200k per person.
- thatwasunusual 6y agoYeah, that's the reason we don't kill each other. /s
- agency 6y agoYou don't think funding social safety nets affects the crime rate? Of course we in the US don't lack the money to fund ours, just the political will.
- thatwasunusual 6y ago> Of course we in the US don't lack the money to fund ours, just the political will. You lack both.
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- mfer 6y agoWhen I see something like this, I'm always curious of the details on demographics, population density, economics, and the other data to know what's going on. For example, the population density is 14.0/km2 (36.3/sq mi) and their ethnicity is primary Norwegian with a large part of the immigrants from other European countries. This is very different from most places in the US. For density you'd need to look at Utah or Kansas. These two states have more ethnic diversity than Norway, it appears. Note, I only point people to the data so we can try to start to look at why we have cases like Norway. And, this is only a start and the easy data to pull from Wikipedia. It's not meant to paint the reason for or picture.
- kalleboo 6y agoNorway also has zero Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants (Note, I only point people to the data so we can try to start to look at why we have cases like Norway) edit: to defuse the snark in my reply as it's not fitting for a HN debate - presenting cherry picked data points and saying "I'm just presenting the data" is still making an argument just through which data you have chosen. Not explicitly stating your argument just makes it weaker.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mycologos 6y agoLooking at the other comments here, there should really be a pithy "law" like Godwin's for the act of comparing the USA to small, wealthy, homogenous countries with harsh immigration policies. I'm not saying it's bad, but boy is it common.
- sandworm101 6y agook. Stick to comparing it to canada: a physically bigger country with higher immigration, slightly lower per-capita earning, more diversity, a similar rate of gun ownership, and a murder rate less than half that of the US. Canada murders per 100,000: 1.8 US: 5.0
- bagacrap 6y agoCanada does not have a larger or more diverse population so the comparison fails on two points. If you compare Minnesota to Canada the murder rates are very similar. So I guess the common thread is the cold weather. /s I think it would be more informative to compare various US states by murder rate to try to find common threads, since the rate varies widely, and also because it seems more practical to make New Mexico more like Idaho than to make it more like Norway.
- sandworm101 6y agoCanada actually has a denser population. Canadian cities are much more sense than average us cities, a relic of a different system of land settlement. Vancouver sits beside total wilderness, but has residential areas as dense as nyc. Canada doesn't have the neverending suburbs that are the norm in the us.
- Infernal 6y agoBy what measure does Canada have more diversity than the US?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- egberts 6y agoI think it is the lack of mental asylums here in US for Norway keeps the difficult cases off of the street that would best explains the disparate murder rate between two countries. Norway has a rigorous involuntary admittance into mental asylums; US has at most strictest, 3-day VOLUNTARY admittance. It is arguable that US mental asylums were dismantled by US Mental Health Systems Act of 1980. In 1980 to 1993, Feds have shriveled up the states’ funds earmarked for fixed mental facilities and dedicated psychiatric hospitals of which took decades to recover in some form of private-funded psychiatry hospitals but still in no way covering all the US needs required for such care due to its “voluntary”-only approach and perhaps the lack of personal funding needed for its own mental health. So, could that be the small price that US citizens pay for allowing freedom for some “insane” of their citizens just to roam ... freely and with unchecked access to firearms? == Reference: == - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1... - https://ijmhs.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13033-018-0189-z https://ijmhs.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13033-018-... - https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/17tq0i/how_are_the_mental_hospitals_in_norway/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/17tq0i/how_are_the_... - https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210121/Researcher-explores-coercive-measures-used-in-Norwegian-asylums.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210121/Researcher-explor...
- milkrocks 6y agoAmazing what can happen in a mono-ethnic society
- recursivedoubts 6y ago‘That’s interesting, because in America, among Scandinavians, we have no poverty, either’
- cozuya 6y agoWhat do you mean by this comment?