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That's what the CCP always does: invade, stick their tentacles into every possible crevice, cut off any avenues by which it might lose power, and begin tighteni
by hntroll666 6y ago
That's what the CCP always does: invade, stick their tentacles into every possible crevice, cut off any avenues by which it might lose power, and begin tightening and strangling, over the screaming protests of the local people. They did it in Tibet, they're doing it in Xinjiang, they're doing it in Hong Kong. They plan to do the same thing in Taiwan.
- nathanyukai 6y agowhat do you mean by invade? Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong are undoubtedly belongs to China. Sure the tightening is not good in a lot of ways, but I keep seeing the western media trying to convince the world that these regions should be 'independent', I wonder why they are doing that.
- krageon 6y agoIt's a concerted propaganda effort that is unfortunately not helped by the multitudes of people that uncritically accept their home country's stance on everything.
- nathanyukai 6y agoI personally don't uncritically accept the tightening rules that is happening in the recent years, but I just like to point out that it's also a concerted propaganda effort that western media just gang up on China's issues, they don't really care about human rights but are using it a political weapon.
- hntroll666 6y agoWhat do I mean by invade? Simply ask anyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, or Taiwan, if they want mainland Chinese there, or if they want to be governed by the CCP. I accept that territory is won or lost, and the Tibetans and Uyghurs lost their territory, but they were definitely invaded and conquered.
- smallhands 6y agoterritory is won or lost !?? so Japanese war crimes in china is ok too because japan actually invaded and conquered china ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
- yazaddaruvala 6y agoTerritory is won and lost by physical violence. This is the history of every nation. None of that excuses current or historic war crimes. Why is your comment relevant?
- Stevvo 6y agoI have asked many people in those regions excluding Xinjiang, and the answers are never as black and white as the narratives you read online. In Tibet, people were not too happy about the military presence on the streets, the cultural assimilation or the mao statue in the shadow of Potala palace, but on balance are were happy to be part of China due to the economic development. People felt they would be unemployed without han presence. In Hong Kong, the most common thing I heard was vaguely racist grumblings about mainlanders. People were unhappy with mainlanders behaving in an "uncivil" manner. There was a majority acknowledgement of China's sovereignty over Hong Kong, and a strong "Chinese" identity. In Taiwan, things did fit your narrative pretty closely. People want nothing to do with the CCP, and many even wanting nothing to do with the mainland at all.
- ChemSpider 6y agoWell, if you are correct, the CCP could/would organize a public vote in Tibet and Hongkong, just like France did in New Caledonia. That is how you handle such a question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independen...
- Stevvo 6y agoI'm just reporting some anecdotes from my personal experience that I thought were relevant to the discussion. I don't see how that can be "correct" or not. I agree with you on the principle of the right to self-determination, but it's not so clearly defined. I.e. how do you define "peoples'? I can't succeed from my nation just because me and my family would like to start a principality. At what point does a group become a 'people' deserving of the right to self-determination?
- 3np 6y agoThe "undoubtedly belong to China" is the narrative from the CCP and not shared by many, especially peoples living in and native to those regions.
- nathanyukai 6y ago"especially peoples living in and native to those regions." lol, check American history please.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Mauricebranagh 6y agoTibet was independent before it was taken over by force
- tibbydudeza 6y agoIt was part of China during the Qing dynasty since 1750. They declared independence in 1913 after the fall of the Qing but it was not recognized by the Chinese Republican govt. The PRC re-annexed it in 1951.
- Mauricebranagh 6y agoBy that argument the UK could re annex parts of France and the USA. And Italy could take back large chunks of the near east.
- ChemSpider 6y agoNot only near east. By that logic Italy can rightfully claim almost all of today's Western Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire
- tibbydudeza 6y agoTheir independence lasted 39 years and was not recognized by the new central govt which had bigger issues to deal with. Calais was lost in 1558 and UK monarch stopped using the title "King Of France" in 1800 so it is a settled issue.
- jhanschoo 6y agoConversely, if not for that argument, China would be a hodgepodge of local warlords (what it was post Qing, before ROC's unification). A problem of claims by irredentism is what time period do you consider the proper extent of a nation's territory? This applies to both the rationalisation of Tibet belonging to China, and for not belonging.
- tibbydudeza 6y ago
- fat-chunk 6y agoWe can all disapprove of what the current CCP is doing, but you cannot compare Hong Kong's situation to Taiwan, Tibet or Xinjiang, in fact you're muddling a bunch of completely different situations. Hong Kong has historically always been a part of "China", you could say it was "invaded" by the British and then the Japanese during WW2. I obviously disapprove of the suppression of the HK populace with force, but this is no different to how the CCP operate in the rest of China. If anything the British mandated China had to apply different rules to a portion of their own territory, in classic imperialist fashion.
- nuller 6y agoJust let the HK people decide. You know thats not going to happen because noone wants to be Chinese. Even the fucking Chinese dont want to be Chinese.
- fat-chunk 6y agoIt's really sad to see that even hacker news has now been plagued by sinophobic racism
- anu7df 6y agoI interpret the parent comment "Chinese don't want to be Chinese" as no one (including Chinese citizens) wants to be under the thumb of an authoritarian government. Not a racist comment.
- pyinstallwoes 6y agoBoth points are over generalizations. It's obviously a complex issue. I've been to Taiwan, I've been to Hong Kong, and from my conversations with all types of people the best I can understand as a foreigner is that the Government is not what being Chinese is about. It's about the culture at the end of the day. You could argue that some population of Chinese have kept a certain culture present from a particular time. There's a lot of what I was told (I can't really know) traditional culture in Taiwan. There was an interesting mix of old and new in Hong Kong. It's sad to see so much conflict as a result of weaponizing identity and heritage. The stuff of lore is what makes any story interesting, and we destroy it with inept government structures.
- gmueckl 6y agoIf you look at the New Silk Road Initiative with that mindset, China is in the process of building up influence over countries around half the globe. Foreign governments get huge loans for funding immense infrastructure projects to facilitate trade with China. Reportedly, these loans come with terms that prevent these governments from speaking or acting against China. At least some states are too poor to repay the loans as a lump sum, which gives these agreements teeth.
- hkai 6y agoI am also upset by the lack of elections, but looking at the US politics from Hong Kong, I see a lot of similarities. The attempts to silence and stigmatize opposition, to close opposition media outlets and deplatform them on social media, harassing advertisers to make sure they don't advertise with the opposition, and the media working with the government to promote some events or views and to bury some others — that all is painfully similar to Hong Kong. You guys over in the US should take a closer look at that.
- christophilus 6y agoQuite a few of us are aware and are taking a look at it. It’s an interesting parallel, and I haven’t heard it drawn quite the way you did. The situation here is a fascinating study that I’d love to read about and analyze in retrospect. Unfortunately, it’s not as fun to live through in real time.