5 ms·

Exactly! It's not about being "the lab's IT guy", writing content management systems for a pharmaceutical company, or parsing medical records. This is just ano

by glassx 15y ago

Exactly! It's not about being "the lab's IT guy", writing content management systems for a pharmaceutical company, or parsing medical records. This is just another boring programming job. Some real life examples. I know a social science university teacher whose undergrads are dabbling in statistical and field data-entry software, and it is getting them into amazing projects. Another example: a friend, comp-sci grad, moved to linguistics and is now a rockstar, researching natural language parsers, big data and statistics. They're social scientists/linguists undergrads first, programmers second, but programming plays a vital role in their academic career.

bh42222 15y ago
They're social scientists/linguists undergrads first, programmers second, but programming plays a vital role in their academic career. This is only because of the sad state of education where programming is this incredibly rare black magic that less than 1% of the people in your field know. (Mathematicians and Physicists obviously excluded.) But this is changing, it has not been the case in physics since for ever, and it soon won't be the case in the softer sciences either. And when everybody is trained with at least a basic ability to program, then your super advantage is gone.
- roadnottaken 15y ago
  when everybody is trained with at least a basic ability to program, then your super advantage is gone Yes, but like Math, not everybody can be trained in it. People either get math or they don't. Everybody has to take calculus to become a scientist or a doctor but most people never really get it and forget it shortly after taking the classes. I imagine the same will happen with programming: there will be a few required classes for a basic science education, but it will be lost on most people. Broader exposure will be good, but it won't magically give all scientists the ability to code.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    I think you're overestimating the difficulty of programming. Let's face it, there's a hell of a lot of moderately bright twelve-year-olds who know how to program adequately well.
    - jongraehl 15y ago
      There are thousands of 12 year olds who can really program. But: that's still incredibly rare. And: a top-.5% twelve year old being able to do something hardly means it's usual or unimpressive for an adult.
  - Ryanmf 15y ago
    1. Take this problem (with working-age Americans/First-world westerners): 2. Add 600 million Indians, 500 MM Chinese, 110 MM Americans, 100 MM Indonesians, 80+ MM Brazilians, and 40+ MM Russians under the age of 25 [1]. 3. Mix thoroughly in your Internet's blender of culture and ethics. 4. Vigorously shake world economic dynamics, then allow 10 years to settle. 5. Voilà! [1] Population data from Wolframalpha.
    - Johngibb 15y ago
      I am constantly worried about this. We (as software developers) are in a time where the ability to code is scarce, and very valuable. But, at some point in time so was being a carpenter, or a toolmaker, or any other skilled profession whose value over time has diminished. In 5 or 10 years, the sole ability to code will probably diminish in value, become more of a commodity, easier to learn, and maybe even become a low-end profession. However, the ability to create a product from scratch, using programming as your toolkit, will always remain valuable. Focus on that - using programming as a means to an end of creating useful products - and you can't be marginalized by a glut of programmers.
      - crasshopper 15y ago
        Elance has been sending jobs to the UAE for a decade and developers still make above median wage in the USA. Suppose the labour market floods with a bunch of newly skilled programmers. HN folks will still have years of experience on those who just finished Learn Python the Hard Way. And: even post this book, there is still a huge barrier to learn basic programming. Experienced programmers might even like working in a world where more people can code. Imagine if your typical Design Client From Hell could do basic CSS and tweak reds for him/herself.
  - bh42222 15y ago
    Yes, but like Math, not everybody can be trained in it. People either get math or they don't. I refuse to believe this. There may be some very tiny minority that truly is genetically unable to get math. But for everyone else I believe it is merely difficult. Education is the problem, not genetics.
- glassx 15y ago
  Hey, but my field is computer science!!! ;D But to be honest, programming isn't black magic here. Not in an university. Music majors have to learn CSound, PureData and Max/MSP. Visual artists need Processing and Quartz Composer. Architects here have programming on the first semester (some of them wrote some badass Blender scripts in python). And that's just the ones I know. Oh, and since I mentioned music software, a good portion of the indie audio-plugin community (the ones that gather around www.kvr-audio.com) is made of musicians, ex-musicians and the sort. Ableton Live (a game-changer in music software) was started by a german duo called Monolake. I believe Zed's point is that there's a lot of potential for programmers outside of computer science and corporate software. Domain knowledge can lead to amazing things.

by glassx 15y ago

bh42222 15y ago

They're social scientists/linguists undergrads first, programmers second, but programming plays a vital role in their academic career. This is only because of the sad state of education where programming is this incredibly rare black magic that less than 1% of the people in your field know. (Mathematicians and Physicists obviously excluded.) But this is changing, it has not been the case in physics since for ever, and it soon won't be the case in the softer sciences either. And when everybody is trained with at least a basic ability to program, then your super advantage is gone.

roadnottaken 15y ago
when everybody is trained with at least a basic ability to program, then your super advantage is gone Yes, but like Math, not everybody can be trained in it. People either get math or they don't. Everybody has to take calculus to become a scientist or a doctor but most people never really get it and forget it shortly after taking the classes. I imagine the same will happen with programming: there will be a few required classes for a basic science education, but it will be lost on most people. Broader exposure will be good, but it won't magically give all scientists the ability to code.
- hugh3 15y ago
  I think you're overestimating the difficulty of programming. Let's face it, there's a hell of a lot of moderately bright twelve-year-olds who know how to program adequately well.
  - jongraehl 15y ago
    There are thousands of 12 year olds who can really program. But: that's still incredibly rare. And: a top-.5% twelve year old being able to do something hardly means it's usual or unimpressive for an adult.
- Ryanmf 15y ago
  1. Take this problem (with working-age Americans/First-world westerners): 2. Add 600 million Indians, 500 MM Chinese, 110 MM Americans, 100 MM Indonesians, 80+ MM Brazilians, and 40+ MM Russians under the age of 25 [1]. 3. Mix thoroughly in your Internet's blender of culture and ethics. 4. Vigorously shake world economic dynamics, then allow 10 years to settle. 5. Voilà! [1] Population data from Wolframalpha.
  - Johngibb 15y ago
    I am constantly worried about this. We (as software developers) are in a time where the ability to code is scarce, and very valuable. But, at some point in time so was being a carpenter, or a toolmaker, or any other skilled profession whose value over time has diminished. In 5 or 10 years, the sole ability to code will probably diminish in value, become more of a commodity, easier to learn, and maybe even become a low-end profession. However, the ability to create a product from scratch, using programming as your toolkit, will always remain valuable. Focus on that - using programming as a means to an end of creating useful products - and you can't be marginalized by a glut of programmers.
    - crasshopper 15y ago
      Elance has been sending jobs to the UAE for a decade and developers still make above median wage in the USA. Suppose the labour market floods with a bunch of newly skilled programmers. HN folks will still have years of experience on those who just finished Learn Python the Hard Way. And: even post this book, there is still a huge barrier to learn basic programming. Experienced programmers might even like working in a world where more people can code. Imagine if your typical Design Client From Hell could do basic CSS and tweak reds for him/herself.
- bh42222 15y ago
  Yes, but like Math, not everybody can be trained in it. People either get math or they don't. I refuse to believe this. There may be some very tiny minority that truly is genetically unable to get math. But for everyone else I believe it is merely difficult. Education is the problem, not genetics.
glassx 15y ago
Hey, but my field is computer science!!! ;D But to be honest, programming isn't black magic here. Not in an university. Music majors have to learn CSound, PureData and Max/MSP. Visual artists need Processing and Quartz Composer. Architects here have programming on the first semester (some of them wrote some badass Blender scripts in python). And that's just the ones I know. Oh, and since I mentioned music software, a good portion of the indie audio-plugin community (the ones that gather around www.kvr-audio.com) is made of musicians, ex-musicians and the sort. Ableton Live (a game-changer in music software) was started by a german duo called Monolake. I believe Zed's point is that there's a lot of potential for programmers outside of computer science and corporate software. Domain knowledge can lead to amazing things.