4 ms·

Really? I thought it was really refreshing to see a corporation not trying to kowtow to politicians. If Warren is saying stuff they find objectionable, call i

Really? I thought it was really refreshing to see a corporation not trying to kowtow to politicians. If Warren is saying stuff they find objectionable, call it out. If a business can't safely criticize a legislator on Twitter, that's pretty much giving up on free speech.

chewmieser 6y ago
And it's within their free speech to find that level of pettiness (and straight-up lies for that matter) distasteful and move his business elsewhere... I agree with them - this is not a good look for Amazon. I have already essentially stopped purchasing on Amazon prior to this for various reasons (endless counterfeits and worker abuses) but will likely look to disband my relationship with AWS as well if they continue.
tpush 6y ago
That'd be fine if they weren't also aggressively lying about their labor conditions.
ncallaway 6y ago
I don't mind them pushing back on politicians, but I do mind them lying while they do it. I'm also stopping purchases from amazon.com based on this, but I'm not yet ready or able to cut out AWS
- ericmay 6y ago
  > but I do mind them lying while they do it Sure, I sympathize with this. But one person's lies are another person's truth in this day and age, unfortunately.
  - suprfsat 6y ago
    You don’t really believe the peeing in bottles thing, do you?
    - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
      We know from internal amazon communications it's happening. It's comical for them to deny it, except for the human misery they are making by having work expectations that make it almost impossible to take bathroom breaks and meet their expectations. The memos that say "please don't leave pee in the trucks, please don't leave poop, we can figure out who you are".
      - tpmoney 6y ago
        Just because something happens and there are memos about it doesn’t mean it happens because of corporate policy. I’ve worked jobs that had memos that said “please don’t pee all over the floor and seat of the bathroom” and “please don’t throw poop covered toilet paper in the trash”. In neither case was the job or corporate policy so unbearable as to not allow enough time for proper bathroom use. It just seems there are some people that don’t understand normal / acceptable human bathroom behavior.
    - WalterSear 6y ago
      I suspect that many people just don't want to believe it, and shape their beliefs to fit their ideology.
    - chewmieser 6y ago
      This isn't new - Amazon workers have had to pee in bottles for years. From 2018: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-have-to-pee-into-bottles-2018-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-hav... This is just the same old Amazon - they optimize everything to the point that humans can't keep pace with their metrics without cutting corners.
      - Rule35 6y ago
        > have had to pee in bottles for years Contractors can choose to pee where they want. But employees can sue so easily over this sort of thing. It's a specific OSHA violation. This story depends on confusing the issue about who is and isn't a contractor, doing this to themselves. The contractor should be let go. As the response notes, they represent the company and represent it badly.
  - ncallaway 6y ago
    Right, but _I_ think they're lying, and so they've lost _my_ purchases because of it. That's the problem when you make corporate statements that are both controversial and on shaky factual ground. The shakier the factual ground the more people might decide you are not telling the truth (as they see it) and stop doing business with you. Again, I have _zero_ problem with a company being snarky with politicians. Criticizing our electeds is the core of the first amendment and I fully support citizens right to disagree with political figures—even political figures I mostly agree with. For example, this particular tweet from @amazonnews I quite agree with: https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007 https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007. > This is extraordinary and revealing. One of the most powerful politicians in the United States just said she’s going to break up an American company so that they can’t criticize her anymore. I have no problem with companies being "powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets". I actually have a problem with the inverse: there should be no company that is not powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets.
benreesman 6y ago
I use Amazon almost every day, and I feel bad about it every time, but apparently not bad enough to stop. Imagine a Walmart that was several degrees hotter or colder than you’d like your house to be, with less bathrooms and a concrete floor. Now imagine running around it all day bending over to grab things off the bottom shelf and being timed by a buzzing iPad if you’re too slow. And say you’re you’re 65 and Social Security pays half your rent. Now imagine that you’re the part of Amazon’s supply chain that the local jurisdiction that demands you’re treated better than the other 97% of Amazon’s chosen supply chain. Refreshing is one word for a company being honest about the fact that they are lobbying hard to make your hypothetical life 0.001% more efficient.
Turing_Machine 6y ago
Regardless of whether Amazon is in the right or wrong on this particular issue, I find it far more disturbing that Warren apparently thinks she should be immune to criticism (whether that criticism is justified or not). For the record: Amazon, you, me, or anyone else is absolutely entitled to send Elizabeth Warren snotty tweets. Or send her snotty emails. Or make snotty phone calls to her office. She is a public servant, not a noble or a pope or whatever. If she can't handle people being rude to her, she needs to find another line of work. The "RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!!!" attitude is not a good look, either.
- scotu 6y ago
  what did she say in response? I only saw her tweet and amazon's petty (and misleading) response. Who said she cannot be criticized? I think mostly people are saying that they are cringey liars...
  - throwawaysea 6y ago
    She said it herself. See https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007 https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007 - in there, Warren says "And fight to break up Big Tech so you’re not powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets." That's a direct threat to break up a private entity because it criticized her (a sitting Senator and representative of the federal government).
    - Turing_Machine 6y ago
      You're getting modded down for this, of course, but she clearly thinks that only the powerful are entitled to "heckle Senators", and that anyone who "heckles Senators" should be punished. Bite me, Senator Warren. I'll "heckle" your entitled ass any time I damned well see fit to do so.
    - scotu 6y ago
      I see. Agreed that's, not great. I'm still more worried about amazon behavior and power currently tbh. Plus she is replaceable by somebody else that is willing to break up big tech, I don't care if it's her or someone else :)
d1zzy 6y ago
Agreed. I may not have agreed with most things Amazon twitter said but IMO it was definitely refreshing to see a company answering back instead of being just a punching bag mute for the politicians to score easy wins like "hey look how tough I am, I'm saying all these things about big bad <insert the latest company punch bag>, you should vote for me because of the emotional response you get from feeling less powerless" (although the latter part is rarely spoken).

chewmieser 6y ago

And it's within their free speech to find that level of pettiness (and straight-up lies for that matter) distasteful and move his business elsewhere... I agree with them - this is not a good look for Amazon. I have already essentially stopped purchasing on Amazon prior to this for various reasons (endless counterfeits and worker abuses) but will likely look to disband my relationship with AWS as well if they continue.

tpush 6y ago

That'd be fine if they weren't also aggressively lying about their labor conditions.

ncallaway 6y ago

I don't mind them pushing back on politicians, but I do mind them lying while they do it. I'm also stopping purchases from amazon.com based on this, but I'm not yet ready or able to cut out AWS

ericmay 6y ago
> but I do mind them lying while they do it Sure, I sympathize with this. But one person's lies are another person's truth in this day and age, unfortunately.
- suprfsat 6y ago
  You don’t really believe the peeing in bottles thing, do you?
  - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
    We know from internal amazon communications it's happening. It's comical for them to deny it, except for the human misery they are making by having work expectations that make it almost impossible to take bathroom breaks and meet their expectations. The memos that say "please don't leave pee in the trucks, please don't leave poop, we can figure out who you are".
    - tpmoney 6y ago
      Just because something happens and there are memos about it doesn’t mean it happens because of corporate policy. I’ve worked jobs that had memos that said “please don’t pee all over the floor and seat of the bathroom” and “please don’t throw poop covered toilet paper in the trash”. In neither case was the job or corporate policy so unbearable as to not allow enough time for proper bathroom use. It just seems there are some people that don’t understand normal / acceptable human bathroom behavior.
  - WalterSear 6y ago
    I suspect that many people just don't want to believe it, and shape their beliefs to fit their ideology.
  - chewmieser 6y ago
    This isn't new - Amazon workers have had to pee in bottles for years. From 2018: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-have-to-pee-into-bottles-2018-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-warehouse-workers-hav... This is just the same old Amazon - they optimize everything to the point that humans can't keep pace with their metrics without cutting corners.
    - Rule35 6y ago
      > have had to pee in bottles for years Contractors can choose to pee where they want. But employees can sue so easily over this sort of thing. It's a specific OSHA violation. This story depends on confusing the issue about who is and isn't a contractor, doing this to themselves. The contractor should be let go. As the response notes, they represent the company and represent it badly.
- ncallaway 6y ago
  Right, but _I_ think they're lying, and so they've lost _my_ purchases because of it. That's the problem when you make corporate statements that are both controversial and on shaky factual ground. The shakier the factual ground the more people might decide you are not telling the truth (as they see it) and stop doing business with you. Again, I have _zero_ problem with a company being snarky with politicians. Criticizing our electeds is the core of the first amendment and I fully support citizens right to disagree with political figures—even political figures I mostly agree with. For example, this particular tweet from @amazonnews I quite agree with: https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007 https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007. > This is extraordinary and revealing. One of the most powerful politicians in the United States just said she’s going to break up an American company so that they can’t criticize her anymore. I have no problem with companies being "powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets". I actually have a problem with the inverse: there should be no company that is not powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets.

benreesman 6y ago

I use Amazon almost every day, and I feel bad about it every time, but apparently not bad enough to stop. Imagine a Walmart that was several degrees hotter or colder than you’d like your house to be, with less bathrooms and a concrete floor. Now imagine running around it all day bending over to grab things off the bottom shelf and being timed by a buzzing iPad if you’re too slow. And say you’re you’re 65 and Social Security pays half your rent. Now imagine that you’re the part of Amazon’s supply chain that the local jurisdiction that demands you’re treated better than the other 97% of Amazon’s chosen supply chain. Refreshing is one word for a company being honest about the fact that they are lobbying hard to make your hypothetical life 0.001% more efficient.

Turing_Machine 6y ago

Regardless of whether Amazon is in the right or wrong on this particular issue, I find it far more disturbing that Warren apparently thinks she should be immune to criticism (whether that criticism is justified or not). For the record: Amazon, you, me, or anyone else is absolutely entitled to send Elizabeth Warren snotty tweets. Or send her snotty emails. Or make snotty phone calls to her office. She is a public servant, not a noble or a pope or whatever. If she can't handle people being rude to her, she needs to find another line of work. The "RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!!!" attitude is not a good look, either.

scotu 6y ago
what did she say in response? I only saw her tweet and amazon's petty (and misleading) response. Who said she cannot be criticized? I think mostly people are saying that they are cringey liars...
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  She said it herself. See https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007 https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1375529101931520007 - in there, Warren says "And fight to break up Big Tech so you’re not powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets." That's a direct threat to break up a private entity because it criticized her (a sitting Senator and representative of the federal government).
  - Turing_Machine 6y ago
    You're getting modded down for this, of course, but she clearly thinks that only the powerful are entitled to "heckle Senators", and that anyone who "heckles Senators" should be punished. Bite me, Senator Warren. I'll "heckle" your entitled ass any time I damned well see fit to do so.
  - scotu 6y ago
    I see. Agreed that's, not great. I'm still more worried about amazon behavior and power currently tbh. Plus she is replaceable by somebody else that is willing to break up big tech, I don't care if it's her or someone else :)

d1zzy 6y ago

Agreed. I may not have agreed with most things Amazon twitter said but IMO it was definitely refreshing to see a company answering back instead of being just a punching bag mute for the politicians to score easy wins like "hey look how tough I am, I'm saying all these things about big bad <insert the latest company punch bag>, you should vote for me because of the emotional response you get from feeling less powerless" (although the latter part is rarely spoken).