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Unfortunately those experts are only experts in their respective fields and are either unable or unwilling to consider the second order consequences of their de

Unfortunately those experts are only experts in their respective fields and are either unable or unwilling to consider the second order consequences of their decisions, such as greatly diminished trust in their institution by people who recognize their obvious lies and in this specific case, causing mask resistance in a large number of individuals.

umvi 6y ago
> Unfortunately those experts are only experts in their respective fields and are either unable or unwilling to consider the second order consequences of their decisions Right... imagine handing over control of society, the economy, and more to computer scientists because of a computer crisis that is killing people at scale (hospital ransomware, a virus that spreads via Bluetooth and causes cell phones to explode and kill people, a virus that causes car accidents, all of them simultaneously, etc.) Imagine Dr. Stallman becoming a new public figurehead that wields incredible power over the lives of Americans. At his word, any industry can be shut down overnight in order to save lives. At his word people must carry their phones around in faraday cages or wear tinfoil lined hats for legitimate scientific reasons. At his word, all people must stop playing online video games if he deems it necessary. Seems absurd, but that's essentially what happened here.
- peytn 6y ago
  I disagree. Communications is a core competency for public health. You can find it in the core curriculum of almost every degree in the field, e.g. [1]. What happened here is a fairly cynical culture of message paternalism that didn’t survive contact with reality and, frankly, needs an overhaul in my opinion. I don’t think it will get that overhaul unless people ask for it. In the meantime, its results speak for themselves. [1]: https://www.jhsph.edu/academics/degree-programs/master-of-public-health/program-overview/_documents/Full-time%20Manual%20Final%2008132020.pdf https://www.jhsph.edu/academics/degree-programs/master-of-pu...
  - umvi 6y ago
    > I disagree. Communications is a core competency for public health. And yet Dr. Fauci became the US public health figurehead despite not having a degree in public health. Dr. Fauci has a BA in classics and an MD, and has spent his career specializing in immunology. Shouldn't we have picked someone with actual experience and background in public health and not someone who has specialized their career in studying viruses? Fauci is first and foremost a researcher, not a public health figurehead who is good at communicating with said public.
    - afarrell 6y ago
      We should have a person who is skilled at communicating with the public about policy decisions and who can calmly preside over conversations like this.
clairity 6y ago
i'd go further and challenge the concept of 'expert' itself. a super common tactic is to trot out a researcher in one niche of a field and claim them to be an expert for the entire field. this is essentially the position fauci is in. his claim to fame is for something he did 30 years ago, yet, he's expected to speak for the entirety of the medical and epidemiological fields. there's an unlimited supply of such 'experts' willing to trade message for power.
- lordnacho 6y ago
  This is another effect of low attention media. There's no nuance. An astrophysicist is a scientist. A options trader is a financier. An embedded C dev is a coder.
  - clairity 6y ago
    that's why we need everyone using their brains, even if they come to wildly implausible conclusions for any given topic, rather than blindly relying on 'experts'. we the people must question and challenge the so-called experts publicly. that would constrain the mediopolitical narrative in a way that reflects the general wisdom of the crowds. where we go wrong is allowing the mediopolitical machine to lead with a self-serving narrative which preemptively correlate opinions along their preferred axis rather than the collectively wise one. it's a age-old battle but one we must continue to wage.

umvi 6y ago

> Unfortunately those experts are only experts in their respective fields and are either unable or unwilling to consider the second order consequences of their decisions Right... imagine handing over control of society, the economy, and more to computer scientists because of a computer crisis that is killing people at scale (hospital ransomware, a virus that spreads via Bluetooth and causes cell phones to explode and kill people, a virus that causes car accidents, all of them simultaneously, etc.) Imagine Dr. Stallman becoming a new public figurehead that wields incredible power over the lives of Americans. At his word, any industry can be shut down overnight in order to save lives. At his word people must carry their phones around in faraday cages or wear tinfoil lined hats for legitimate scientific reasons. At his word, all people must stop playing online video games if he deems it necessary. Seems absurd, but that's essentially what happened here.

peytn 6y ago
I disagree. Communications is a core competency for public health. You can find it in the core curriculum of almost every degree in the field, e.g. [1]. What happened here is a fairly cynical culture of message paternalism that didn’t survive contact with reality and, frankly, needs an overhaul in my opinion. I don’t think it will get that overhaul unless people ask for it. In the meantime, its results speak for themselves. [1]: https://www.jhsph.edu/academics/degree-programs/master-of-public-health/program-overview/_documents/Full-time%20Manual%20Final%2008132020.pdf https://www.jhsph.edu/academics/degree-programs/master-of-pu...
- umvi 6y ago
  > I disagree. Communications is a core competency for public health. And yet Dr. Fauci became the US public health figurehead despite not having a degree in public health. Dr. Fauci has a BA in classics and an MD, and has spent his career specializing in immunology. Shouldn't we have picked someone with actual experience and background in public health and not someone who has specialized their career in studying viruses? Fauci is first and foremost a researcher, not a public health figurehead who is good at communicating with said public.
  - afarrell 6y ago
    We should have a person who is skilled at communicating with the public about policy decisions and who can calmly preside over conversations like this.

clairity 6y ago

i'd go further and challenge the concept of 'expert' itself. a super common tactic is to trot out a researcher in one niche of a field and claim them to be an expert for the entire field. this is essentially the position fauci is in. his claim to fame is for something he did 30 years ago, yet, he's expected to speak for the entirety of the medical and epidemiological fields. there's an unlimited supply of such 'experts' willing to trade message for power.

lordnacho 6y ago
This is another effect of low attention media. There's no nuance. An astrophysicist is a scientist. A options trader is a financier. An embedded C dev is a coder.
- clairity 6y ago
  that's why we need everyone using their brains, even if they come to wildly implausible conclusions for any given topic, rather than blindly relying on 'experts'. we the people must question and challenge the so-called experts publicly. that would constrain the mediopolitical narrative in a way that reflects the general wisdom of the crowds. where we go wrong is allowing the mediopolitical machine to lead with a self-serving narrative which preemptively correlate opinions along their preferred axis rather than the collectively wise one. it's a age-old battle but one we must continue to wage.