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> But the fact that admission to this community required total philosophical adherence is just bizarre. I don't think it's bizarre at all. With the church remo

by sarabad2021 6y ago

> But the fact that admission to this community required total philosophical adherence is just bizarre. I don't think it's bizarre at all. With the church removed from western society something will fill the vacuum. And truly it already has. Our society requires complete unquestioning philosophical adherence to its new religion. What happened during the French revolution? They turned the churches into "Temples of Reason" all the while lopping off the head of anyone that did not wholly and totally adhere to their new moral code. Even in the end the god of this new moral code met his fate by the monster he created. Believe me what is happening is not what anyone here should want. For all of you who are thinking and reasonable. Read the history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianization_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianization_of_France_d...

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
> And truly it already has. I don't think you're arguing that it's the same motivation as the French revolution, so it would help to elucidate your point if you said what you think that new thing is. It would also help to explain how you think that enforced philosophical adherence by all of western society applies as there are still 47% of Americans who DO belong to a religious institution.
- sarabad2021 6y ago
  I agree that it isn't the same motivation but we're on trend to seeing a similar result. If we do get to that extreme then by that time, we'll have a new moral system which won't allow these types of conversations, in the same way certain extremist sects of christianity didn't allow dissidents to live. However, the form of christianity that we have now simply hurts peoples feelings. Hardly cause for such outrage. Though today hurting someones feelings is the equivalent of violence and there is no way to be forgiven except a life of apologizing and groveling. Exciting time to be alive.
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    You're still avoiding saying what you think that trend is. > However, the form of christianity that we have now simply hurts peoples feelings. Hardly cause for such outrage. I believe there are still abusers hidden in Catholic Church are there not?
    - sarabad2021 6y ago
      Yes, there are abusers and that is heinous. The catholic church has done unspeakable amounts of damage to Christianity. However, that damage was done by going against the teaching of Christ who warned against such evil saying: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea." Mark 9:42. There will be justice. I can't imagine having a worldview where these evil people just die and cease to exist. Totally escaping justice.
      - krastanov 6y ago
        And many can not imagine a worldview that relies on justice being provided by some entity after death. I would call that "escaping justice".
        sarabad2021 6y ago
        Actually that entity demands both. Man's justice and God's justice.
        8note 6y ago
        Jesus was pretty specific about who should be casting stones, and that generally people are not qualified to do so Man's justice is forgiveness, not punishment
boudin 6y ago
You have to put things in their context though. Not saying that the years of chaotic and arbitrary killing that followed the revolution was great, but religion was a different thing in France back then. It was also (and foremost) politics and a system of power before being a religion. I wouldn't attach the world "moral" to the catholic church back then because it definitely had none.
jmcqk6 6y ago
>And truly it already has. Our society requires complete unquestioning philosophical adherence to its new religion. Obviously, since speaking heresies like this will get you killed. /s Take a step back, disengage from the culture war, and take a look at what is actually happening.
- throwawaygal7 6y ago
  But it can cost you a job, and your place in society
  - SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
    ...so can religion? I mean we literally had to implement laws to say you can’t get fired for your religion, so clearly it was a problem.
allemagne 6y ago
People have been talking about the vacuum that Christianity has left or will leave in Western society for over a century. Most of the time, however, those who complain about this then completely miss the point. The new organizations, ideologies, and new-age pseudo-religions "filling the religion-shaped hole" in society aren't inherently "lesser" than religion (or necessarily better). They are simply filling the niches in an ecosystem that many traditional religious structures by and large refuse to adapt to. Yes, the sudden decrease in religiosity in society is probably just trading one set of problems for another, but if individuals didn't think that leaving their church was in their best interests then they wouldn't have left in the first place. Secularization is an inevitable consequence of freedom. Religion and Christianity itself probably won't ever go away for the same reason it has clung to life for millennia: it will change and adapt to those new needs. It's only the stubbornly complacent sects and congregations who will dwindle and go extinct.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  People can be wrong about what's in their best interests... Just because people left doesn't mean it was good overall. In fact, I think one of the keys to any religious belief (even the current scientism that's in vogue today) is that people are not the sole knowers of what's best for themselves.
mattnewton 6y ago
Dechristianization does not equal the french revolution any more than the rise of national catholicism equals Franco's fascist dictatorship. Plenty of western nations have dropped the church as it failed to adapt to modern liberal society, and plenty of atrocious regimes have been aided and abetted by the blessings of churches.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

> And truly it already has. I don't think you're arguing that it's the same motivation as the French revolution, so it would help to elucidate your point if you said what you think that new thing is. It would also help to explain how you think that enforced philosophical adherence by all of western society applies as there are still 47% of Americans who DO belong to a religious institution.

sarabad2021 6y ago
I agree that it isn't the same motivation but we're on trend to seeing a similar result. If we do get to that extreme then by that time, we'll have a new moral system which won't allow these types of conversations, in the same way certain extremist sects of christianity didn't allow dissidents to live. However, the form of christianity that we have now simply hurts peoples feelings. Hardly cause for such outrage. Though today hurting someones feelings is the equivalent of violence and there is no way to be forgiven except a life of apologizing and groveling. Exciting time to be alive.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  You're still avoiding saying what you think that trend is. > However, the form of christianity that we have now simply hurts peoples feelings. Hardly cause for such outrage. I believe there are still abusers hidden in Catholic Church are there not?
  - sarabad2021 6y ago
    Yes, there are abusers and that is heinous. The catholic church has done unspeakable amounts of damage to Christianity. However, that damage was done by going against the teaching of Christ who warned against such evil saying: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea." Mark 9:42. There will be justice. I can't imagine having a worldview where these evil people just die and cease to exist. Totally escaping justice.
    - krastanov 6y ago
      And many can not imagine a worldview that relies on justice being provided by some entity after death. I would call that "escaping justice".
      - sarabad2021 6y ago
        Actually that entity demands both. Man's justice and God's justice.
        8note 6y ago
        Jesus was pretty specific about who should be casting stones, and that generally people are not qualified to do so Man's justice is forgiveness, not punishment

boudin 6y ago

You have to put things in their context though. Not saying that the years of chaotic and arbitrary killing that followed the revolution was great, but religion was a different thing in France back then. It was also (and foremost) politics and a system of power before being a religion. I wouldn't attach the world "moral" to the catholic church back then because it definitely had none.

jmcqk6 6y ago

>And truly it already has. Our society requires complete unquestioning philosophical adherence to its new religion. Obviously, since speaking heresies like this will get you killed. /s Take a step back, disengage from the culture war, and take a look at what is actually happening.

throwawaygal7 6y ago
But it can cost you a job, and your place in society
- SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
  ...so can religion? I mean we literally had to implement laws to say you can’t get fired for your religion, so clearly it was a problem.

allemagne 6y ago

People have been talking about the vacuum that Christianity has left or will leave in Western society for over a century. Most of the time, however, those who complain about this then completely miss the point. The new organizations, ideologies, and new-age pseudo-religions "filling the religion-shaped hole" in society aren't inherently "lesser" than religion (or necessarily better). They are simply filling the niches in an ecosystem that many traditional religious structures by and large refuse to adapt to. Yes, the sudden decrease in religiosity in society is probably just trading one set of problems for another, but if individuals didn't think that leaving their church was in their best interests then they wouldn't have left in the first place. Secularization is an inevitable consequence of freedom. Religion and Christianity itself probably won't ever go away for the same reason it has clung to life for millennia: it will change and adapt to those new needs. It's only the stubbornly complacent sects and congregations who will dwindle and go extinct.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
People can be wrong about what's in their best interests... Just because people left doesn't mean it was good overall. In fact, I think one of the keys to any religious belief (even the current scientism that's in vogue today) is that people are not the sole knowers of what's best for themselves.

mattnewton 6y ago

Dechristianization does not equal the french revolution any more than the rise of national catholicism equals Franco's fascist dictatorship. Plenty of western nations have dropped the church as it failed to adapt to modern liberal society, and plenty of atrocious regimes have been aided and abetted by the blessings of churches.