4 ms·

congrats, i guess but not a fan of the VC route, we all know how this ends.

by colesantiago 6y ago

spark3k 6y ago
Which route on an independent MIT licensed project would you suggest?
- rukshn 6y ago
  It is matter of time until they release a proprietary version which is better than the MIT version. Chrome vs chromium etc
  - lucacasonato 6y ago
    The blog post specifically says that that will not happen
    - rukshn 6y ago
      Yes, but Facebook said it will not monetize WhatsApp, and something similar when they bought WhatsApp Instagram. We all know how that turned out to be History repeats itself, the above two are the recent incidents that comes to my mind
      - croes 6y ago
        And you will never need a FB account for Oculus
    - exhaze 6y ago
      Let's make a gentlemens' bet. If Deno is still completely free in 5 years, I'll give you $500. You up for that?
      - spark3k 6y ago
        A gentleman’s bet with $500 is just a bet.
        hashkb 6y ago
        Isn't a "gentleman's bet" one with no bookie / office / dealer / etc?
        spark3k 6y ago
        https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gentleman%27s_bet https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gentleman%27s_bet
        hashkb 6y ago
        Damn. Looks like I have lost a few of these.
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > If Deno is still completely free in 5 years, I'll give you $500. You up for that? Heck, sign me up. Who wouldn't be up for that? What's the downside supposed to be?
        exhaze 6y ago
        It wasn’t clear enough that if it isn’t, you’ll be expected to give me $500?
        thaumasiotes 6y ago
        Maybe if you had included that in the terms of the bet.
      - mekkkkkk 6y ago
        You'll lose your money. Deno will be free. DenoPro won't be though.
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      Most people will do things when in difficulties that they swear they would never do if asked while comfortable.
      - q-big 6y ago
        Most people are pathological liars.
        bryanrasmussen 6y ago
        no they're not, a large number are - maybe 13% https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/science/13-people-are-pathological-liars-and-suffer-from-distress-impaired-social-functioning-study-5564651.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/science/13-people-are-path... , what it is is that most people just aren't that self-aware or have a better opinion of themselves than is perhaps warranted. So let me make clear here, if I ever start a company based on open source principles and it looks like I am going to get squeezed out of business by Amazon if I keep sticking to those principles I will probably abandon those principles (unless I'm already a billionaire and have something really cool I want to work on anyway) because damned if I would let Amazon beat me. The chance of my abandoning those principles will correlate closely to how bad my finances will be after losing out to Amazon. On the other hand if I build up a big enough company and start making money off of using open source technologies as a service for other technologists I hope I would support the open source projects from which I was benefiting.
        q-big 6y ago
        > So let me make clear here, if I ever start a company based on open source principles and it looks like I am going to get squeezed out of business by Amazon if I keep sticking to those principles I will probably abandon those principles (unless I'm already a billionaire and have something really cool I want to work on anyway) because damned if I would let Amazon beat me. The chance of my abandoning those principles will correlate closely to how bad my finances will be after losing out to Amazon. If you want to keep this option open, then make no such promises or (perhaps better) formulate the promises in a way that is aligned to the options that you do want to keep open for the company.
    - marcosdumay 6y ago
      Part of what VC investment means is that this is not his decision to make anymore.
- colesantiago 6y ago
  sell some of the deno artworks [0] as an NFT? [0] https://deno.land/artwork https://deno.land/artwork
zomglings 6y ago
They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about. With respect, and without impugning your right to make this criticism, I find your criticism shallow. I don't know what your particular circumstances are, but I see your view expounded a lot by developers who are getting their salaries from companies that can afford to pay them because they took VC money in the first place. We are certainly not entitled to Deno for free (although the MIT license is in their best interests for now). I am glad they found a way to sustain its development for the near future.
- krainboltgreene 6y ago
  > They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about. No, they figured out a way to delete that problem. VC money isn't a gift. It's a loan.
  - zomglings 6y ago
    It is most definitely not a loan. It is time/runway, purchased with equity and eventual loss of control. Edit: There is more to it, of course. It is also entry into a somewhat exclusive network of future investors + customers if you choose your VCs wisely.

congrats, i guess but not a fan of the VC route, we all know how this ends.

spark3k 6y ago

Which route on an independent MIT licensed project would you suggest?

rukshn 6y ago
It is matter of time until they release a proprietary version which is better than the MIT version. Chrome vs chromium etc
- lucacasonato 6y ago
  The blog post specifically says that that will not happen
  - rukshn 6y ago
    Yes, but Facebook said it will not monetize WhatsApp, and something similar when they bought WhatsApp Instagram. We all know how that turned out to be History repeats itself, the above two are the recent incidents that comes to my mind
    - croes 6y ago
      And you will never need a FB account for Oculus
  - exhaze 6y ago
    Let's make a gentlemens' bet. If Deno is still completely free in 5 years, I'll give you $500. You up for that?
    - spark3k 6y ago
      A gentleman’s bet with $500 is just a bet.
      - hashkb 6y ago
        Isn't a "gentleman's bet" one with no bookie / office / dealer / etc?
        spark3k 6y ago
        https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gentleman%27s_bet https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gentleman%27s_bet
        hashkb 6y ago
        Damn. Looks like I have lost a few of these.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > If Deno is still completely free in 5 years, I'll give you $500. You up for that? Heck, sign me up. Who wouldn't be up for that? What's the downside supposed to be?
      - exhaze 6y ago
        It wasn’t clear enough that if it isn’t, you’ll be expected to give me $500?
        thaumasiotes 6y ago
        Maybe if you had included that in the terms of the bet.
    - mekkkkkk 6y ago
      You'll lose your money. Deno will be free. DenoPro won't be though.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    Most people will do things when in difficulties that they swear they would never do if asked while comfortable.
    - q-big 6y ago
      Most people are pathological liars.
      - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
        no they're not, a large number are - maybe 13% https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/science/13-people-are-pathological-liars-and-suffer-from-distress-impaired-social-functioning-study-5564651.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/science/13-people-are-path... , what it is is that most people just aren't that self-aware or have a better opinion of themselves than is perhaps warranted. So let me make clear here, if I ever start a company based on open source principles and it looks like I am going to get squeezed out of business by Amazon if I keep sticking to those principles I will probably abandon those principles (unless I'm already a billionaire and have something really cool I want to work on anyway) because damned if I would let Amazon beat me. The chance of my abandoning those principles will correlate closely to how bad my finances will be after losing out to Amazon. On the other hand if I build up a big enough company and start making money off of using open source technologies as a service for other technologists I hope I would support the open source projects from which I was benefiting.
        q-big 6y ago
        > So let me make clear here, if I ever start a company based on open source principles and it looks like I am going to get squeezed out of business by Amazon if I keep sticking to those principles I will probably abandon those principles (unless I'm already a billionaire and have something really cool I want to work on anyway) because damned if I would let Amazon beat me. The chance of my abandoning those principles will correlate closely to how bad my finances will be after losing out to Amazon. If you want to keep this option open, then make no such promises or (perhaps better) formulate the promises in a way that is aligned to the options that you do want to keep open for the company.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Part of what VC investment means is that this is not his decision to make anymore.
colesantiago 6y ago
sell some of the deno artworks [0] as an NFT? [0] https://deno.land/artwork https://deno.land/artwork

zomglings 6y ago

They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about. With respect, and without impugning your right to make this criticism, I find your criticism shallow. I don't know what your particular circumstances are, but I see your view expounded a lot by developers who are getting their salaries from companies that can afford to pay them because they took VC money in the first place. We are certainly not entitled to Deno for free (although the MIT license is in their best interests for now). I am glad they found a way to sustain its development for the near future.

krainboltgreene 6y ago
> They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about. No, they figured out a way to delete that problem. VC money isn't a gift. It's a loan.
- zomglings 6y ago
  It is most definitely not a loan. It is time/runway, purchased with equity and eventual loss of control. Edit: There is more to it, of course. It is also entry into a somewhat exclusive network of future investors + customers if you choose your VCs wisely.