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Obviously the age of consent can be discussed, it even varies from country to country. I don't understand the EMACS virgin joke? I don't think asking women on

Obviously the age of consent can be discussed, it even varies from country to country. I don't understand the EMACS virgin joke? I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". How are men and women supposed to get together? Even in a "professional setting", because the feminist claim that it is demeaning to women if somebody is attracted to them is simply wrong. I can't claim RMS is "ok", but I'd like to see better evidence against him. Some women disliking him is not enough, either.

mhh__ 6y ago
> I don't understand the EMACS virgin joke? The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. Bad taste aside, the issue is really that he specifically singles out women when reciting it. More detail: https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke > I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". There's a time and a place. Ultimately it's highly dependent on context, but if women are made uncomfortable by it in this case I don't think it's unreasonable to try and stop. Also just to spell it out, the implication here is that he was only talking to her to get into her pants. FWIW I don't believe Stallman is a deeply rooted sexist, but rather than he has certain extremely unhelful patterns in his behaviour which he is wilfully blind to. When he says he believes women deserve free software too, I do believe him, but that isn't good enough i.e. sometimes words have no meaning.
- psychiatrist24 6y ago
  "The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. " According to the article, the "virginity" of never having used EMACS before. I dunno - doesn't really move my "hate RMS" meter, tbh. Not that I think it is a joke that is necessary to be made, but not the end of the world, either. "Ultimately it's highly dependent on context, but if women are made uncomfortable by it in this case I don't think it's unreasonable to try and stop." According to the story, he asked her for a date, and that was it. So he did stop? It is a nice thought to avoid things that make women uncomfortable, but it is not actually a practical rule. Sometimes you can not know beforehand what makes them uncomfortable. It also seems unfair to simply demand unattractive men should never attempt to get dates. And you should not simply give a group of people to rule over other people at their whim - if you establish that rule, women can just control everything, because anything else would make them uncomfortable. For sure they can control who gets to be made the boss of companies or organisations.
  - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
    Why do you keep avoiding the details? It's public knowledge that women have been avoid Stallman's office for decades.
    - psychiatrist24 6y ago
      "public knowledge" - I don't know about his exploits, and I am part of the public. I repeatedly said I can not defend him because I don't know enough about him. But I can comment on the attacks that are being launched. I have looked into the alleged "support for paedophilia" and comments of "old guy hits on young women", for example. Maybe if you want to kick out RMS, you should compile a good overview of the public knowledge, with as many verifiable claims as possible.
bartread 6y ago
> I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". In general I agree with you but in this specific instance RMS would have been about 50 years old at the time (please see my other comment in direct response to GP). 50 year old men asking out 19 year old women is very much inappropriate behaviour.
- psychiatrist24 6y ago
  Serious question, why is it inappropriate? It is against the "Bro Code" from "How I met your mother", but other than that? Sure, we are trained to feel uneasy about it, but if you really think about it, why exactly? Because you consider 50 year old men disgusting? Shouldn't you leave that to the women to decide? Many people also feel a bit disgusted about gay sex, yet they are supposed to tolerate and even celebrate it. My other thought would be it seems like a bad "investment", as the older guy will most likely die before the young woman. But these days, single parenting is the norm rather than the exception. So is it really so much worse if the partner dies than if you divorce them and exclude them from your life? Yet again, single parenting is now almost being pushed as the model to aim for. And also "rainbow families" - if your partner dies, simply find a new one, it doesn't matter if they also already have kids. It is all possible and normal these days.
  - bloodorange 6y ago
    > But these days, single parenting is the norm rather than the exception. This is a rather unusual observation I have to say. How did you come to this conclusion, might I ask?
    - psychiatrist24 6y ago
      I didn't look it up beforehand. Just googled for it, for example here it says 57% of millenial mothers are single moms. https://comparecamp.com/single-parent-statistics/ https://comparecamp.com/single-parent-statistics/ Talk about divorce being on the rise has been going on for years.
  - bartread 6y ago

mhh__ 6y ago

> I don't understand the EMACS virgin joke? The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. Bad taste aside, the issue is really that he specifically singles out women when reciting it. More detail: https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke > I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". There's a time and a place. Ultimately it's highly dependent on context, but if women are made uncomfortable by it in this case I don't think it's unreasonable to try and stop. Also just to spell it out, the implication here is that he was only talking to her to get into her pants. FWIW I don't believe Stallman is a deeply rooted sexist, but rather than he has certain extremely unhelful patterns in his behaviour which he is wilfully blind to. When he says he believes women deserve free software too, I do believe him, but that isn't good enough i.e. sometimes words have no meaning.

psychiatrist24 6y ago
"The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. " According to the article, the "virginity" of never having used EMACS before. I dunno - doesn't really move my "hate RMS" meter, tbh. Not that I think it is a joke that is necessary to be made, but not the end of the world, either. "Ultimately it's highly dependent on context, but if women are made uncomfortable by it in this case I don't think it's unreasonable to try and stop." According to the story, he asked her for a date, and that was it. So he did stop? It is a nice thought to avoid things that make women uncomfortable, but it is not actually a practical rule. Sometimes you can not know beforehand what makes them uncomfortable. It also seems unfair to simply demand unattractive men should never attempt to get dates. And you should not simply give a group of people to rule over other people at their whim - if you establish that rule, women can just control everything, because anything else would make them uncomfortable. For sure they can control who gets to be made the boss of companies or organisations.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
  Why do you keep avoiding the details? It's public knowledge that women have been avoid Stallman's office for decades.
  - psychiatrist24 6y ago
    "public knowledge" - I don't know about his exploits, and I am part of the public. I repeatedly said I can not defend him because I don't know enough about him. But I can comment on the attacks that are being launched. I have looked into the alleged "support for paedophilia" and comments of "old guy hits on young women", for example. Maybe if you want to kick out RMS, you should compile a good overview of the public knowledge, with as many verifiable claims as possible.

bartread 6y ago

> I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". In general I agree with you but in this specific instance RMS would have been about 50 years old at the time (please see my other comment in direct response to GP). 50 year old men asking out 19 year old women is very much inappropriate behaviour.

psychiatrist24 6y ago
Serious question, why is it inappropriate? It is against the "Bro Code" from "How I met your mother", but other than that? Sure, we are trained to feel uneasy about it, but if you really think about it, why exactly? Because you consider 50 year old men disgusting? Shouldn't you leave that to the women to decide? Many people also feel a bit disgusted about gay sex, yet they are supposed to tolerate and even celebrate it. My other thought would be it seems like a bad "investment", as the older guy will most likely die before the young woman. But these days, single parenting is the norm rather than the exception. So is it really so much worse if the partner dies than if you divorce them and exclude them from your life? Yet again, single parenting is now almost being pushed as the model to aim for. And also "rainbow families" - if your partner dies, simply find a new one, it doesn't matter if they also already have kids. It is all possible and normal these days.
- bloodorange 6y ago
  > But these days, single parenting is the norm rather than the exception. This is a rather unusual observation I have to say. How did you come to this conclusion, might I ask?
  - psychiatrist24 6y ago
    I didn't look it up beforehand. Just googled for it, for example here it says 57% of millenial mothers are single moms. https://comparecamp.com/single-parent-statistics/ https://comparecamp.com/single-parent-statistics/ Talk about divorce being on the rise has been going on for years.
- bartread 6y ago