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Tesla Wants Your Bitcoin Without the Downside

18 points by salakotolu 6y ago

nightski 6y ago
I don't see how this is "without the downside". A refund could end up being more expensive to Tesla in the long run (in terms of # of BTC). If BTC has a temporary dip they have to give you more BTC to equal the $ amount. BTC has demonstrated, while volatile, to be quite likely to keep nudging upward. In addition, just because it is priced relative to USD doesn't mean it is accurate to say the transaction takes place in dollars. That is absolutely not true. Lastly, as someone who has only bought 2 cars in my lifetime - who refunds cars? Is that common? I've never heard of such a thing. What is the return rate on Teslas?
- tptacek 6y ago
  Since they can choose how to refund, they can refund in USD as long as BTC is appreciating, and refund in BTC if BTC depreciates below the spot price at the time of purchase. On the backend, they can just convert BTC to cash if they're worried about currency risk.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - nightski 6y ago
    Fair enough but the consumer can also play the same game at time of purchase. BTC up today? Buy a car. BTC down today? Do not. Either way you get the USD equivalent back. I can't imagine someone actually caring about this. If you think it's likely that you will return a car, maybe think about such a large purchase a little more?
    - dyslexit 6y ago
      You don't get your USD equivalent back if they pay you back in depreciated BTC.
      - nightski 6y ago
        Sure, but from how I interpret the clause it would be the exact same amount of BTC as you put in to purchase it. So it doesn't really matter if it's value relative to USD is less? You are in the same position as if you had not bought the car. "If you are entitled to a refund of your payment or to a buyback, we reserve the right to refund you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase" Either way you are getting either 1. the exact amount of BTC you put in or 2. the USD value of the car.
        tptacek 6y ago
        If you buy a car in BTC worth $50k USD at the time of purchase, and, at the time of the refund, the same BTC is worth $75k, they will refund you $50k USD. If you buy the same car and refund when BTC is worth $25k, they will refund you $25K worth of BTC. Heads they win, tails you lose.
        nightski 6y ago
        That's not what the clause says - or at least point to specific phrase. It says if you buy it for 2 BTC they will refund you 2 BTC (assuming they refund BTC).
        dyslexit 6y ago
        It is what the clause says, you cut it off just before they say it. > If you are entitled to a refund of your payment or to a buyback, we reserve the right to refund to you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase or an amount of US Dollars that is equivalent to the US Dollar price of the product that you purchased, at our sole and absolute discretion, taking into consideration operational efficiency.
        nightski 6y ago
        "we reserve the right to refund to you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase" Maybe I am misunderstanding this but it clearly says the BTC Price that you provided at the time of purchase. So if you paid 2.150000 BTC for it that is the price you would be refunded? "or an amount of US Dollars that is equivalent to the US Dollar price of the product that you purchased, at our sole and absolute discretion, taking into consideration operational efficiency" The second part of the clause refers to the USD refund amount if they choose to refund in USD and has nothing to do with the first part about BTC. EDIT: I did not miss the either. I understand you can be refunded in BTC OR USD. The entire point was that if you are refunded in BTC it will be for the BTC amount you paid which is in direct contradiction to what tptacek said. It's just wrong.
- shahan312 6y ago
  Tesla's policy I believe is 7 days. I think California allows returning a used car within 2 business days and under 250 miles.
  - akmarinov 6y ago
    They quietly got rid of the 7 days policy - https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/16/21520086/tesla-full-refund-seven-day-return-policy-removed https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/16/21520086/tesla-full-refu...
- brudgers 6y ago
  In the case of a safety recall in the US, the manufacturer gets to choose from three options to address it. 1. Fix it for free. 2. Replace the vehicle with a new vehicle. 3. Purchase the vehicle back. Bitcoin potentially provides arbitrage with the third option. Safety recalls are not uncommon. Suppose Tesla ships an over-the-air software change and then recalls the vehicles. State by state Lemon-laws also might come into play. At a minimum there is nothing buyer friendly in the clause.
capableweb 6y ago
> And finally, taxes. Imagine owing capital gains tax on top of sales tax? When you buy something in Bitcoin, it’s as if you’re liquidating an asset. In this case, you’ll pay whatever capital gains tax applies to the Bitcoin you liquidated on top of sales taxes for your purchase. The author seems to misunderstand how the transaction happen and how laws look in a lot of countries. In many places, the only time you have to pay taxes related to Bitcoin is when you convert it to another currency, be it Euro, American Dollars or Ethereum's Eth, you pay when you change it, and it's usually capital gain tax that gets paid. By allowing you to buy a Tesla in Bitcoins directly (since Tesla runs their own nodes as well, apparently) you can avoid having to pay those capital gain taxes, as you're not actually realizing any gain, you're using it as a currency and in it's current form. You're not converting your Bitcoin to USD and then use that as purchase, you're purchasing it with Bitcoins directly. All this is very early though, and I don't know of any court cases so both my opinion and everyone elses are just guesses at this point. Gonna be interesting to see what happens in the future. Disclaimer: since I'm writing "how laws look in a lot of countries" I'm obviously not putting forward a US-centric view that many replies seems to assume I mean. And also, obviously don't take random advice on the internet regarding tax laws, check your own countries.
- tw04 6y ago
  So you're an accountant, or a tax lawyer? If not you might want to give that a massive, giant, IANAL because that's not even remotely accurate. So wrong in fact, the IRS specifically calls out the fact that vehicles are not exempt from gains taxation. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/like-kind-exchanges-now-limited-to-real-property https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/like-kind-exchanges-now-limited... >Effective Jan. 1, 2018, exchanges of personal or intangible property such as machinery, equipment, vehicles, artwork, collectibles, patents, and other intellectual property generally do not qualify for nonrecognition of gain or loss as like-kind exchanges.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > So you're an accountant, or a tax lawyer? If not you might want to give that a massive, giant, IANAL No, I'm not and I don't need to disclaim what my profession is either. What is with the internets obsession about "IANAL"? Isn't it more proper to assume that someone is NOT a lawyer, accountant or whatever if they don't say anything, than the opposite? (Irony is that you failed to add "IANAL" to your comment, should I assume you're actually a lawyer?) Sure, IRS might act like that but not every country, and if you read my comment again you see that my view is broader than just the IRS.
fblp 6y ago
This is interesting. I can't think of a comparison for foreign currency where the seller would reserve the right to refund you with an alternate currency (such as USD), rather than the currency you paid in. However, often brands like Apple incorporate currency risk into their higher foreign prices.
tptacek 6y ago
Tesla will let you purchase a car in bitcoin (but denominated in USD). When refunding purchases made in Bitcoin, it can choose BTC or USD. Tesla's support for cryptocurrency seems morally in the same ballpark as that politician who was wearing a cloth "masks are stupid I'm just wearing this because I have to" mask over an N95.
- dan-robertson 6y ago
  It feels more like Tesla are simply trying to sell you a car rather than sell you a weird financial instrument that amounts to a Tesla convertible into some Bitcoin, at the same price as a Tesla (so they are basically giving you a free at-the-money call on Bitcoin and the only cost of exercising it is that you’d have to wait longer to get your Tesla.) This doesn’t feel like an easy position to hedge for the company and Tesla doesn’t feel to me like the kind of company that should be figuring out how to hedge such a thing. Instead they sell you a car and give you a sufficiently bad deal for the refund that you will only use it if you actually want the refund rather than because you want to speculate on the price of Bitcoin.
mensetmanusman 6y ago
This is basically saying, don’t buy a Tesla with bitcoin if you have any thought that you might return it, because that will make things super complicated with such a volatile currency. If it wasn’t this way, people would return their vehicle if they saw bitcoin value jump up 100%.
- brudgers 6y ago
  The transaction could be entirely pegged to the dollar.
jlrubin 6y ago
patio11's take on this rings the most true to me. > So this "Look, if you treat your Tesla reservation like an option on Bitcoins, we've designed it to be literally the worst possible option on Bitcoins. Please, please, please: don't try this." is actually a quite reasonable policy. https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1375137941933027333 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1375137941933027333
- capableweb 6y ago
  Worth remembering that patio11 has a vested interest (via Stripe) in seeing Bitcoin fail and the current financial system continue operating like it is today. I'm not saying he is wrong here, or wrong in general about Bitcoin, or that you shouldn't take his advice into consideration. Just to remember when people speak for/against Bitcoin they sometimes can have deeper (even sometimes unsubconcious) motives.
  - bb88 6y ago
    His argument is either a good or bad one. If anything his current position makes him an expert.
    - capableweb 6y ago
      > His argument is either a good or bad one Well, I wish things were that easy, but life is not that black and white. Someone can be right and wrong at the same time. > If anything his current position makes him an expert. What? His position in Stripe makes him an expert on cryptocurrencies? As far as I know, Stripe doesn't deal with cryptocurrencies anymore, so his position in Stripe makes him biased against cryptocurrencies, not a general expert about cryptocurrencies.
      - jlrubin 6y ago
        I, on the other hand, to the extent that anyone can claim to be an expert on cryptocurrency, am an expert on cryptocurrency. It's a fine take and that's why I linked it. I'm aware patio11's takes are not always good, but as said earlier > His argument is either a good or bad one
fallingknife 6y ago
Fair enough. If you want to transact in a unusual, volitile currency, you should expect the counterparty to be unwilling to take those risks. If you don't like it, you can always just sell your BTC for USD, and buy the normal way.
craigc 6y ago
This is a pretty terrible take. First of all it only applies to refunds. Second, if you are afraid of missing out on Bitcoin gains then DON’T BUY YOUR CAR USING BITCOIN. I have spent Bitcoin on things like web hosting in the past, I paid probably $150 worth of Bitcoin on a server when the price of Bitcoin was less than $10k. If I had kept that Bitcoin it would be worth around $1,000 now. Does that mean I should be allowed to ask the web hosting company for a refund or should expect them to refund me the full amount in Bitcoin? Absolutely not. If they did it any other way then the customer would be the one taking on zero risk. If the price of Bitcoin went down you would keep your car, and if the price went up, you could ask for a refund to increase the total dollar amount of money you already spent.
- jiofih 6y ago
  That’s a fair take, but what about not refunding the full amount when BTC goes down? That seems very consumer hostile. They should take a symmetrical risk like everybody else.
  - craigc 6y ago
    Yeah. I agree that is not great, but it also is legal language and says “might be less”, not a guarantee. The way I would probably do it is always refund the equivalent U.S. dollar amount of the initial purchase. That may very well be what they plan to do in practice and this is just language to cover them incase they need to make exceptions. One thing that makes the Tesla case unique is that they plan to hold the Bitcoin they receive _as_ Bitcoin whereas most companies who accept Bitcoin immediately convert it to dollars. So I think they have to have some leeway. Similar to my other example, if you spend 1 BTC @ $50k to buy a car then the price of Bitcoin crashes to $30k and you ask for a refund, it isn’t feasible for Tesla to pay you 1.6 BTC as your refund cause then you end up with more BTC than you paid initially and Tesla didn’t gain BTC by holding your original amount.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      Why would you give a large company "some leeway" when entering into a contract with them? Expect them to exercise the language they put in the contract!
throwaway4good 6y ago
"There’s also the pain the customer will feel knowing that they could’ve bought two Teslas if only they held on to their BTC for a little longer." Dear internet. When are you going to get over this bitcoin thing? It is getting silly.
modeless 6y ago
Not only is this not some kind of "genius" evil scheme, this is in fact the only way that makes sense at all. If you could buy a Tesla with Bitcoin with a guaranteed refund of the same amount of Bitcoin, you could use it as a financial instrument. Buy a bunch of Teslas for Bitcoin, then if Bitcoin goes up you send them back for Bitcoin refunds, and if Bitcoin goes down you sell the Teslas for dollars instead. Now you can speculate in Bitcoin risk free! Obviously it can't work this way.
- akvadrako 6y ago
  Actually the only fair scheme would be to always price purchases and refunds in the same currency. Of course that can't be bitcoin.
xiphias2 6y ago
I'm pretty sure this would be illegal in the EU where the full (EUR) price has to be refunded within 14 days of delivery. Whenever I bought things with BTC, only fiat refund was possible for legal reasons. Anyways Tesla so far is respecting EU law and I expect it to do that with Bitcoin as well when they start accepting Bitcoin there.

18 points by salakotolu 6y ago

I don't see how this is "without the downside". A refund could end up being more expensive to Tesla in the long run (in terms of # of BTC). If BTC has a temporary dip they have to give you more BTC to equal the $ amount. BTC has demonstrated, while volatile, to be quite likely to keep nudging upward. In addition, just because it is priced relative to USD doesn't mean it is accurate to say the transaction takes place in dollars. That is absolutely not true. Lastly, as someone who has only bought 2 cars in my lifetime - who refunds cars? Is that common? I've never heard of such a thing. What is the return rate on Teslas?

tptacek 6y ago
Since they can choose how to refund, they can refund in USD as long as BTC is appreciating, and refund in BTC if BTC depreciates below the spot price at the time of purchase. On the backend, they can just convert BTC to cash if they're worried about currency risk.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nightski 6y ago
  Fair enough but the consumer can also play the same game at time of purchase. BTC up today? Buy a car. BTC down today? Do not. Either way you get the USD equivalent back. I can't imagine someone actually caring about this. If you think it's likely that you will return a car, maybe think about such a large purchase a little more?
  - dyslexit 6y ago
    You don't get your USD equivalent back if they pay you back in depreciated BTC.
    - nightski 6y ago
      Sure, but from how I interpret the clause it would be the exact same amount of BTC as you put in to purchase it. So it doesn't really matter if it's value relative to USD is less? You are in the same position as if you had not bought the car. "If you are entitled to a refund of your payment or to a buyback, we reserve the right to refund you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase" Either way you are getting either 1. the exact amount of BTC you put in or 2. the USD value of the car.
      - tptacek 6y ago
        If you buy a car in BTC worth $50k USD at the time of purchase, and, at the time of the refund, the same BTC is worth $75k, they will refund you $50k USD. If you buy the same car and refund when BTC is worth $25k, they will refund you $25K worth of BTC. Heads they win, tails you lose.
        nightski 6y ago
        That's not what the clause says - or at least point to specific phrase. It says if you buy it for 2 BTC they will refund you 2 BTC (assuming they refund BTC).
        dyslexit 6y ago
        It is what the clause says, you cut it off just before they say it. > If you are entitled to a refund of your payment or to a buyback, we reserve the right to refund to you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase or an amount of US Dollars that is equivalent to the US Dollar price of the product that you purchased, at our sole and absolute discretion, taking into consideration operational efficiency.
        nightski 6y ago
        "we reserve the right to refund to you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase" Maybe I am misunderstanding this but it clearly says the BTC Price that you provided at the time of purchase. So if you paid 2.150000 BTC for it that is the price you would be refunded? "or an amount of US Dollars that is equivalent to the US Dollar price of the product that you purchased, at our sole and absolute discretion, taking into consideration operational efficiency" The second part of the clause refers to the USD refund amount if they choose to refund in USD and has nothing to do with the first part about BTC. EDIT: I did not miss the either. I understand you can be refunded in BTC OR USD. The entire point was that if you are refunded in BTC it will be for the BTC amount you paid which is in direct contradiction to what tptacek said. It's just wrong.
shahan312 6y ago
Tesla's policy I believe is 7 days. I think California allows returning a used car within 2 business days and under 250 miles.
- akmarinov 6y ago
  They quietly got rid of the 7 days policy - https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/16/21520086/tesla-full-refund-seven-day-return-policy-removed https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/16/21520086/tesla-full-refu...
brudgers 6y ago
In the case of a safety recall in the US, the manufacturer gets to choose from three options to address it. 1. Fix it for free. 2. Replace the vehicle with a new vehicle. 3. Purchase the vehicle back. Bitcoin potentially provides arbitrage with the third option. Safety recalls are not uncommon. Suppose Tesla ships an over-the-air software change and then recalls the vehicles. State by state Lemon-laws also might come into play. At a minimum there is nothing buyer friendly in the clause.

capableweb 6y ago

> And finally, taxes. Imagine owing capital gains tax on top of sales tax? When you buy something in Bitcoin, it’s as if you’re liquidating an asset. In this case, you’ll pay whatever capital gains tax applies to the Bitcoin you liquidated on top of sales taxes for your purchase. The author seems to misunderstand how the transaction happen and how laws look in a lot of countries. In many places, the only time you have to pay taxes related to Bitcoin is when you convert it to another currency, be it Euro, American Dollars or Ethereum's Eth, you pay when you change it, and it's usually capital gain tax that gets paid. By allowing you to buy a Tesla in Bitcoins directly (since Tesla runs their own nodes as well, apparently) you can avoid having to pay those capital gain taxes, as you're not actually realizing any gain, you're using it as a currency and in it's current form. You're not converting your Bitcoin to USD and then use that as purchase, you're purchasing it with Bitcoins directly. All this is very early though, and I don't know of any court cases so both my opinion and everyone elses are just guesses at this point. Gonna be interesting to see what happens in the future. Disclaimer: since I'm writing "how laws look in a lot of countries" I'm obviously not putting forward a US-centric view that many replies seems to assume I mean. And also, obviously don't take random advice on the internet regarding tax laws, check your own countries.

tw04 6y ago
So you're an accountant, or a tax lawyer? If not you might want to give that a massive, giant, IANAL because that's not even remotely accurate. So wrong in fact, the IRS specifically calls out the fact that vehicles are not exempt from gains taxation. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/like-kind-exchanges-now-limited-to-real-property https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/like-kind-exchanges-now-limited... >Effective Jan. 1, 2018, exchanges of personal or intangible property such as machinery, equipment, vehicles, artwork, collectibles, patents, and other intellectual property generally do not qualify for nonrecognition of gain or loss as like-kind exchanges.
- capableweb 6y ago
  > So you're an accountant, or a tax lawyer? If not you might want to give that a massive, giant, IANAL No, I'm not and I don't need to disclaim what my profession is either. What is with the internets obsession about "IANAL"? Isn't it more proper to assume that someone is NOT a lawyer, accountant or whatever if they don't say anything, than the opposite? (Irony is that you failed to add "IANAL" to your comment, should I assume you're actually a lawyer?) Sure, IRS might act like that but not every country, and if you read my comment again you see that my view is broader than just the IRS.

fblp 6y ago

This is interesting. I can't think of a comparison for foreign currency where the seller would reserve the right to refund you with an alternate currency (such as USD), rather than the currency you paid in. However, often brands like Apple incorporate currency risk into their higher foreign prices.

tptacek 6y ago

Tesla will let you purchase a car in bitcoin (but denominated in USD). When refunding purchases made in Bitcoin, it can choose BTC or USD. Tesla's support for cryptocurrency seems morally in the same ballpark as that politician who was wearing a cloth "masks are stupid I'm just wearing this because I have to" mask over an N95.

dan-robertson 6y ago
It feels more like Tesla are simply trying to sell you a car rather than sell you a weird financial instrument that amounts to a Tesla convertible into some Bitcoin, at the same price as a Tesla (so they are basically giving you a free at-the-money call on Bitcoin and the only cost of exercising it is that you’d have to wait longer to get your Tesla.) This doesn’t feel like an easy position to hedge for the company and Tesla doesn’t feel to me like the kind of company that should be figuring out how to hedge such a thing. Instead they sell you a car and give you a sufficiently bad deal for the refund that you will only use it if you actually want the refund rather than because you want to speculate on the price of Bitcoin.

mensetmanusman 6y ago

This is basically saying, don’t buy a Tesla with bitcoin if you have any thought that you might return it, because that will make things super complicated with such a volatile currency. If it wasn’t this way, people would return their vehicle if they saw bitcoin value jump up 100%.

brudgers 6y ago
The transaction could be entirely pegged to the dollar.

jlrubin 6y ago

patio11's take on this rings the most true to me. > So this "Look, if you treat your Tesla reservation like an option on Bitcoins, we've designed it to be literally the worst possible option on Bitcoins. Please, please, please: don't try this." is actually a quite reasonable policy. https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1375137941933027333 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1375137941933027333

capableweb 6y ago
Worth remembering that patio11 has a vested interest (via Stripe) in seeing Bitcoin fail and the current financial system continue operating like it is today. I'm not saying he is wrong here, or wrong in general about Bitcoin, or that you shouldn't take his advice into consideration. Just to remember when people speak for/against Bitcoin they sometimes can have deeper (even sometimes unsubconcious) motives.
- bb88 6y ago
  His argument is either a good or bad one. If anything his current position makes him an expert.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > His argument is either a good or bad one Well, I wish things were that easy, but life is not that black and white. Someone can be right and wrong at the same time. > If anything his current position makes him an expert. What? His position in Stripe makes him an expert on cryptocurrencies? As far as I know, Stripe doesn't deal with cryptocurrencies anymore, so his position in Stripe makes him biased against cryptocurrencies, not a general expert about cryptocurrencies.
    - jlrubin 6y ago
      I, on the other hand, to the extent that anyone can claim to be an expert on cryptocurrency, am an expert on cryptocurrency. It's a fine take and that's why I linked it. I'm aware patio11's takes are not always good, but as said earlier > His argument is either a good or bad one

fallingknife 6y ago

Fair enough. If you want to transact in a unusual, volitile currency, you should expect the counterparty to be unwilling to take those risks. If you don't like it, you can always just sell your BTC for USD, and buy the normal way.

craigc 6y ago

This is a pretty terrible take. First of all it only applies to refunds. Second, if you are afraid of missing out on Bitcoin gains then DON’T BUY YOUR CAR USING BITCOIN. I have spent Bitcoin on things like web hosting in the past, I paid probably $150 worth of Bitcoin on a server when the price of Bitcoin was less than $10k. If I had kept that Bitcoin it would be worth around $1,000 now. Does that mean I should be allowed to ask the web hosting company for a refund or should expect them to refund me the full amount in Bitcoin? Absolutely not. If they did it any other way then the customer would be the one taking on zero risk. If the price of Bitcoin went down you would keep your car, and if the price went up, you could ask for a refund to increase the total dollar amount of money you already spent.

jiofih 6y ago
That’s a fair take, but what about not refunding the full amount when BTC goes down? That seems very consumer hostile. They should take a symmetrical risk like everybody else.
- craigc 6y ago
  Yeah. I agree that is not great, but it also is legal language and says “might be less”, not a guarantee. The way I would probably do it is always refund the equivalent U.S. dollar amount of the initial purchase. That may very well be what they plan to do in practice and this is just language to cover them incase they need to make exceptions. One thing that makes the Tesla case unique is that they plan to hold the Bitcoin they receive _as_ Bitcoin whereas most companies who accept Bitcoin immediately convert it to dollars. So I think they have to have some leeway. Similar to my other example, if you spend 1 BTC @ $50k to buy a car then the price of Bitcoin crashes to $30k and you ask for a refund, it isn’t feasible for Tesla to pay you 1.6 BTC as your refund cause then you end up with more BTC than you paid initially and Tesla didn’t gain BTC by holding your original amount.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Why would you give a large company "some leeway" when entering into a contract with them? Expect them to exercise the language they put in the contract!

throwaway4good 6y ago

"There’s also the pain the customer will feel knowing that they could’ve bought two Teslas if only they held on to their BTC for a little longer." Dear internet. When are you going to get over this bitcoin thing? It is getting silly.

modeless 6y ago

Not only is this not some kind of "genius" evil scheme, this is in fact the only way that makes sense at all. If you could buy a Tesla with Bitcoin with a guaranteed refund of the same amount of Bitcoin, you could use it as a financial instrument. Buy a bunch of Teslas for Bitcoin, then if Bitcoin goes up you send them back for Bitcoin refunds, and if Bitcoin goes down you sell the Teslas for dollars instead. Now you can speculate in Bitcoin risk free! Obviously it can't work this way.

akvadrako 6y ago
Actually the only fair scheme would be to always price purchases and refunds in the same currency. Of course that can't be bitcoin.

xiphias2 6y ago

I'm pretty sure this would be illegal in the EU where the full (EUR) price has to be refunded within 14 days of delivery. Whenever I bought things with BTC, only fiat refund was possible for legal reasons. Anyways Tesla so far is respecting EU law and I expect it to do that with Bitcoin as well when they start accepting Bitcoin there.