4 ms·

I agree with the sentiment, but this part is way off: > [...] despite being one of the most fiat currencies by definition [...] FIAT currencies are by design

by atmosx 6y ago

I agree with the sentiment, but this part is way off: > [...] despite being one of the most fiat currencies by definition [...] FIAT currencies are by design inflationary to enhance spending. Bitcoin is deflationary _by design_. Since there's no bank or state backing Bitcoin, the only way that bitcoin makes sense was/is deflation. This quality makes BTC an asset and that's what it is, a digital asset. As a currency BTC has already failed.

agumonkey 6y ago
how would you quality VISA and Tesla accepting bitcoin ? does it qualify as asset tranfer or currency ? (open question)
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  Governments want you to think of crypto primarily as an asset and not a currency, because they don't want to give up control over currency creation. The fact that you have to file capital gains for every crypto will be the giant silent hurdle that stimies wide spread use. The only way to overcome this is if so many people ignore the law that it becomes unenforceable. Only time will tell.
  - atmosx 6y ago
    > Governments want you to think of crypto primarily as an asset and not a currency, because they don't want to give up control over currency creation. According to Adi Shamir[1] 98% of bitcoins belonged to 2% of portfolios in 2012. So... The government is "bad" because you can actually express your opinion in monetary policy, you know who's who, etc. and BTC (or any other crypto) is good because you have absolutely no idea who the 2% is? I'm not following... Regarding the gov and BTC. The government will tax BTC the same will tax any other asset, so in reality, the gov doesn't care. You can choose to hide profits from BTC and you'd choose to hide profits from any other financial activity. I don't really see the US Gov fighting bitcoin, if anything the gov tries to put BTC into perspective. If you are anti-gov because "gov is bad (by default)" I get the feeling but has little to do with BTC. [1]: http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf
  - Monitorio 6y ago
    bitcoin will not just replace other mechanism/means of paying without a state interfering. And why? Because our current finance market is regulated and we don't need bitcoin to free it. Its not technology which is putting all those restrictions and systems onto the finance market therefore a technology like btc doesn't solve anything. Companies for example are not allowed to do trade with North Korea by law. So if everyone starts to use btc to do exactly that, guess who will step in and regulate it? I'm always lost on why people think btc will fix any issues we currently have. There is a reason why people invest in Euros and Dollars ('hard' currencies) and gold.
- atmosx 6y ago
  I'm not sure how is this relevant. Would you really buy a Tesla with BTC, when you can buy it with USD? If I give you 10 BTC today, you'd hoard them or go on a spending spree?
lottin 6y ago
A fiat currency is any currency that isn't backed by a commodity, i.e. it's not redeemable for a certain quantity of the commodity by the issuer, and bitcoin falls squarely into this category.
- lowkey 6y ago
  The definition of fiat means by decree. In other words fiat currency has value because a central government authority (formerly king) decrees that the paper has value. Bitcoin has no central authority that decrees it has value - only demand by the people drives the value of Bitcoin. Bitcoin may be a lot of thing, but it isn't a fiat currency.
  - lottin 6y ago
    A currency created "by fiat" means it's created without backing. "A novelty of the 20th century was the issue of fiat currencies by governments. ("Fiat" means not backed by any reserve commodity, as the gold- and silver-based currencies of previous centuries were)." [1] [1] https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/ https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/

by atmosx 6y ago

agumonkey 6y ago

how would you quality VISA and Tesla accepting bitcoin ? does it qualify as asset tranfer or currency ? (open question)

Consultant32452 6y ago
Governments want you to think of crypto primarily as an asset and not a currency, because they don't want to give up control over currency creation. The fact that you have to file capital gains for every crypto will be the giant silent hurdle that stimies wide spread use. The only way to overcome this is if so many people ignore the law that it becomes unenforceable. Only time will tell.
- atmosx 6y ago
  > Governments want you to think of crypto primarily as an asset and not a currency, because they don't want to give up control over currency creation. According to Adi Shamir[1] 98% of bitcoins belonged to 2% of portfolios in 2012. So... The government is "bad" because you can actually express your opinion in monetary policy, you know who's who, etc. and BTC (or any other crypto) is good because you have absolutely no idea who the 2% is? I'm not following... Regarding the gov and BTC. The government will tax BTC the same will tax any other asset, so in reality, the gov doesn't care. You can choose to hide profits from BTC and you'd choose to hide profits from any other financial activity. I don't really see the US Gov fighting bitcoin, if anything the gov tries to put BTC into perspective. If you are anti-gov because "gov is bad (by default)" I get the feeling but has little to do with BTC. [1]: http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf
- Monitorio 6y ago
  bitcoin will not just replace other mechanism/means of paying without a state interfering. And why? Because our current finance market is regulated and we don't need bitcoin to free it. Its not technology which is putting all those restrictions and systems onto the finance market therefore a technology like btc doesn't solve anything. Companies for example are not allowed to do trade with North Korea by law. So if everyone starts to use btc to do exactly that, guess who will step in and regulate it? I'm always lost on why people think btc will fix any issues we currently have. There is a reason why people invest in Euros and Dollars ('hard' currencies) and gold.
atmosx 6y ago
I'm not sure how is this relevant. Would you really buy a Tesla with BTC, when you can buy it with USD? If I give you 10 BTC today, you'd hoard them or go on a spending spree?

lottin 6y ago

A fiat currency is any currency that isn't backed by a commodity, i.e. it's not redeemable for a certain quantity of the commodity by the issuer, and bitcoin falls squarely into this category.

lowkey 6y ago
The definition of fiat means by decree. In other words fiat currency has value because a central government authority (formerly king) decrees that the paper has value. Bitcoin has no central authority that decrees it has value - only demand by the people drives the value of Bitcoin. Bitcoin may be a lot of thing, but it isn't a fiat currency.
- lottin 6y ago
  A currency created "by fiat" means it's created without backing. "A novelty of the 20th century was the issue of fiat currencies by governments. ("Fiat" means not backed by any reserve commodity, as the gold- and silver-based currencies of previous centuries were)." [1] [1] https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/ https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/