6 ms·

> The anti-China rhetoric and propaganda in the USA has been steadily ramping up over the last 3-5 years as well, for better or worse. I don't think this is an

by gspr 6y ago

> The anti-China rhetoric and propaganda in the USA has been steadily ramping up over the last 3-5 years as well, for better or worse. I don't think this is an accident or happenstance. Yeah, it's really strange that negative rhetoric has been ramping up against a government that is now running full-blown ethnic concentration camps in Xinjiang, is flagrantly stomping on the democratic rights of the people of Hong Kong, and is of course still completely ignoring its own citizens' human rights. Really strange.

sneak 6y ago
It appears to have worked well for its intended purpose. For the record, the US imprisons its ethnic minorities in inhumane conditions (including labor camps and forced sterilization, just like China) at a per-capita rate 17x higher than China does. I think the disparity in public perception (in the US; I can't speak to China as I'm not there) of the two superpowers is telling.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  The disparity is ridiculously large as someone who reads zhihu for Chinese practice. It's like looking at two alien worlds. The biggest difference at least to me is that US social media really drinks the coolaid on how human rights and liberal ideas are the main drivers behind America's political decisions, that America should be a force for good that has a responsibility to vanquish evil around the world, and that everyone naturally wants to live under America's image for the world. Chinese social media leans towards the world as a place where might makes right and ideals are just a cover for power games. The most popular posts I've seen are ones that point out American hypocrisy in their words and deeds. But more interestingly, every charitable action the US has taken towards China is portrayed as something that is ultimately self serving, and China's portrayed as a country that's been forced to accept the rules the US has imposed because of its historical weakness and is only now gaining the strength to push back against a global hegemon. Of course, the ultimate decisions for war and peace lie with their leaders, but if you brought the populations of China and the US into the same room there would probably be a brawl in 15 minutes.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I feel like these stories of inevitable civilizational conflict have to be weighed against the reality that the US has millions of Chinese-born immigrants who get along just fine. Immigrants are of course not a randomly selected population, but the idea that China is civilizationally incapable of believing in universal ideals or getting along with Americans seems like a CCP self-defense mechanism more than a truly defensible thesis.
- whoooooo123 6y ago
  That's great - now go to China and start publicly posting on the Internet about China's human rights violations (or better yet, actively campaigning against them) and see how long you last.
- gspr 6y ago
  I'm not even gonna pick up this insane digression. First of all, the US doing something isn't an excuse. Second, at least injustices in the US are considered injustices. People speak out. There is debate and protests. In China? Yeah try holding a ULM (Uighur Lives Matter) protest in China and get back to me.
- mlindner 6y ago
  > For the record, the US imprisons its ethnic minorities in inhumane conditions (including labor camps and forced sterilization, just like China) at a per-capita rate 17x higher than China does. LOL!!!! We imprison people of ANY ethnicity who commit crimes. Some prisons have ways where the people there can earn wages through work, though most don't. You can maybe stretch the definition of what "labor camp" means to include that, but I wouldn't. And we DEFINITELY do not do forced sterilization rofl. If you're going to go around spreading fake propaganda, invent some better stuff next time.
  - xtian 6y ago
    > And we DEFINITELY do not do forced sterilization rofl. No? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Board_of_North_Carolina https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Board_of_North_Caro... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
    - mlindner 6y ago
      I used current tense. Not past tense. There was all sorts of weird stuff that happened around the time of Nazism in Germany, including strong proponents of Nazism in the US at that time. Lest we not forget the internment of Americans of Japanese descent civilians during WW2. Again, these are unfortunate things that happened in the past. None of that justifies any other country doing anything in modern day. It's like saying "Oh Germany had Nazis during WW2 so having Nazis today is okay."
      - xtian 6y ago
        There have been accusations that ICE has performed forced sterilizations, but for now it remains at the level of conspiracy theory. It's easy to talk about how "unfortunate" US atrocities were and insist they're "in the past" after the cover-up campaigns have successfully concluded. But why would these institutions change when they succeeded at their aims and no one was ever held accountable? Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay are not in the distant past.
  - 6y ago
Fricken 6y ago
>According to a survey conducted by the Hong Kong Public Opinion Research Institute in December 2019, one-fifth of Hong Kong's population supported Hong Kong independence, while 56% of Hongkongers opposed it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence
- TheAsprngHacker 6y ago
  Please forgive me if I misunderstand the Hong Kong issue, but I thought that it was just the more extreme people who support Hong Kong independence, and the main purpose of the protest was the "five demands, not one less?" I found this on Wikipedia: > Reuters conducted polls in December 2019,[617] March 2020,[618] June 2020[619] and August 2020. The last poll showed that an increasing number of Hongkongers support the pro-democracy goals since the national security law was implemented. More than half of the respondents opposed the national security law. 70% wanted an independent commission of inquiry that looked into how the police handled the protests. 63% wanted universal suffrage. The support for amnesty of all arrested protesters rose to 50%. More than half of people still wanted Carrie Lam to resign. The number of people who opposed the pro-democracy demands went down to 19%. The majority (60%) still opposed Hong Kong independence, 20% supported the idea.[620] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Hong_Kong_prot...
- gspr 6y ago
  Did I mention independence? Anyway: All Chinese citizens are being denied their democratic natural rights. That's a battle that's not gonna be won anytime sokn, I recognize that. But the citizens of HK are now being denied their agreed upon, on-paper, legal democratic rights by the CCP pigs.

by gspr 6y ago

sneak 6y ago

It appears to have worked well for its intended purpose. For the record, the US imprisons its ethnic minorities in inhumane conditions (including labor camps and forced sterilization, just like China) at a per-capita rate 17x higher than China does. I think the disparity in public perception (in the US; I can't speak to China as I'm not there) of the two superpowers is telling.

magicsmoke 6y ago
The disparity is ridiculously large as someone who reads zhihu for Chinese practice. It's like looking at two alien worlds. The biggest difference at least to me is that US social media really drinks the coolaid on how human rights and liberal ideas are the main drivers behind America's political decisions, that America should be a force for good that has a responsibility to vanquish evil around the world, and that everyone naturally wants to live under America's image for the world. Chinese social media leans towards the world as a place where might makes right and ideals are just a cover for power games. The most popular posts I've seen are ones that point out American hypocrisy in their words and deeds. But more interestingly, every charitable action the US has taken towards China is portrayed as something that is ultimately self serving, and China's portrayed as a country that's been forced to accept the rules the US has imposed because of its historical weakness and is only now gaining the strength to push back against a global hegemon. Of course, the ultimate decisions for war and peace lie with their leaders, but if you brought the populations of China and the US into the same room there would probably be a brawl in 15 minutes.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I feel like these stories of inevitable civilizational conflict have to be weighed against the reality that the US has millions of Chinese-born immigrants who get along just fine. Immigrants are of course not a randomly selected population, but the idea that China is civilizationally incapable of believing in universal ideals or getting along with Americans seems like a CCP self-defense mechanism more than a truly defensible thesis.
whoooooo123 6y ago
That's great - now go to China and start publicly posting on the Internet about China's human rights violations (or better yet, actively campaigning against them) and see how long you last.
gspr 6y ago
I'm not even gonna pick up this insane digression. First of all, the US doing something isn't an excuse. Second, at least injustices in the US are considered injustices. People speak out. There is debate and protests. In China? Yeah try holding a ULM (Uighur Lives Matter) protest in China and get back to me.
mlindner 6y ago
> For the record, the US imprisons its ethnic minorities in inhumane conditions (including labor camps and forced sterilization, just like China) at a per-capita rate 17x higher than China does. LOL!!!! We imprison people of ANY ethnicity who commit crimes. Some prisons have ways where the people there can earn wages through work, though most don't. You can maybe stretch the definition of what "labor camp" means to include that, but I wouldn't. And we DEFINITELY do not do forced sterilization rofl. If you're going to go around spreading fake propaganda, invent some better stuff next time.
- xtian 6y ago
  > And we DEFINITELY do not do forced sterilization rofl. No? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Board_of_North_Carolina https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Board_of_North_Caro... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
  - mlindner 6y ago
    I used current tense. Not past tense. There was all sorts of weird stuff that happened around the time of Nazism in Germany, including strong proponents of Nazism in the US at that time. Lest we not forget the internment of Americans of Japanese descent civilians during WW2. Again, these are unfortunate things that happened in the past. None of that justifies any other country doing anything in modern day. It's like saying "Oh Germany had Nazis during WW2 so having Nazis today is okay."
    - xtian 6y ago
      There have been accusations that ICE has performed forced sterilizations, but for now it remains at the level of conspiracy theory. It's easy to talk about how "unfortunate" US atrocities were and insist they're "in the past" after the cover-up campaigns have successfully concluded. But why would these institutions change when they succeeded at their aims and no one was ever held accountable? Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay are not in the distant past.
- 6y ago

Fricken 6y ago

>According to a survey conducted by the Hong Kong Public Opinion Research Institute in December 2019, one-fifth of Hong Kong's population supported Hong Kong independence, while 56% of Hongkongers opposed it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_independence

TheAsprngHacker 6y ago
Please forgive me if I misunderstand the Hong Kong issue, but I thought that it was just the more extreme people who support Hong Kong independence, and the main purpose of the protest was the "five demands, not one less?" I found this on Wikipedia: > Reuters conducted polls in December 2019,[617] March 2020,[618] June 2020[619] and August 2020. The last poll showed that an increasing number of Hongkongers support the pro-democracy goals since the national security law was implemented. More than half of the respondents opposed the national security law. 70% wanted an independent commission of inquiry that looked into how the police handled the protests. 63% wanted universal suffrage. The support for amnesty of all arrested protesters rose to 50%. More than half of people still wanted Carrie Lam to resign. The number of people who opposed the pro-democracy demands went down to 19%. The majority (60%) still opposed Hong Kong independence, 20% supported the idea.[620] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Hong_Kong_prot...
gspr 6y ago
Did I mention independence? Anyway: All Chinese citizens are being denied their democratic natural rights. That's a battle that's not gonna be won anytime sokn, I recognize that. But the citizens of HK are now being denied their agreed upon, on-paper, legal democratic rights by the CCP pigs.