9 ms·

So if the FBI knew about the threat, why weren't more precautions in place against rioting?

by zpeti 6y ago

dragontamer 6y ago
Because the DoD under Trump refused to provide support until 5pm. EDIT: Remember: DC is a TERRITORY, not a state. Which means its security comes under the command of the *President*, who wasn't exactly keen on stopping the riot. EDIT2: Remember the timeline: 12:30pm was around when the fence-line was breached. Capitol was breached by 2:30. DoD approving and sending support around 5pm is way late by any metric. Its clear that the executive branch was dragging their feet on the issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol#Wednesday,_January_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2021_storming_... > 5:08 p.m.: Army senior leaders relay to Major General Walker the Secretary of Defense's permission to deploy the DCNG to the Capitol.[55]
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  No, Pelosi was in charge of Capitol security: "Pelosi does have authority over the sergeant at arms’ office, but Irving rejected the request without consulting House leadership, according to multiple reports published in mid-January. Hammill also denied that Pelosi’s office was ever made aware of requests for the National Guard on Jan. 6. A spokesman for Irving has said that Irving did not consult with Pelosi." https://www.fresnobee.com/news/california/article249315725.html https://www.fresnobee.com/news/california/article249315725.h...
- ganoushoreilly 6y ago
  Look, Trump was a jackass, but this isn't factual at all. Both the National Guard and various individuals (Sergeant at arms, Capital Police Chief) asked for and or offered help. Each side was met with denial "due to optics". On the capital side the CPC asked the SAM numerous times and the SAM was ordered to not make the request (though the SAM himself wanted too). Who is in charge of the sam? Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. Both Political parties are full of old lying cronies that are doing nothing but stoking the fires of discord by lying and blaming the other party. The Capital Riots were a failure from all parties involved and no where has anyone asserted Trump refused to provide support. EDIT: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuffs-claims-national-guard-was-never-called-during-ri https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-c...
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    > Look, Trump was a jackass, but this isn't factual at all. Why didn't Trump offer military support at 2:30pm, when the Capitol was breached? There's a 3-hour period here that's extremely uncomfortable. Wrestle with that 3-hour period between 2pm and 5pm, and come to your own conclusions. But facts be facts. In contrast: Once the DoD refused to support Pelosi, she called the Governor of Maryland to send in the Maryland National Guard. Governor Hogan refused: because that is tantamount to invasion unless they had DoD approval. Governor Hogan sent the troops in as soon as DoD approval was granted at 5pm. We know what the holdup was. These discussions are public and documented and timestamped. ------------- The one group in charge of defense: the Department of Defense (who is in charge of securing territories of the USA), watched on the sidelines between 12pm and 5pm before deciding to help. That's the facts. Maybe waiting was the right choice at 12pm or 1pm (when the hope was that the protesters would go away), but by 2:30pm, shots were fired and blood was spilled. And don't be naive. We all know that both Proud Boys and Oath Keepers explicitly try to recruit military members into their group. That whole "Defend your Oath after you leave the military" thing plays pretty strongly with military members.
    - ganoushoreilly 6y ago
      Because he doesn't have the authority to. Just like he couldn't just send in troops during the riots. It had to be National Guard, authorized by the governors. EDIT: I'd also like to point out to anyone reading that OP consistently edits and amends their original post after responses are made, which changes the narrative and or representation of information.
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        > It had to be National Guard, authorized by the governors. Who is in charge of the DC National Guard? Who has no governor? Spoiler alert: DoD / Trump. Seriously, look at the org-chart.
        ganoushoreilly 6y ago
- bsanr2 6y ago
  FBI isn't under the DoD. The problem is an institution-wide reluctance to take right-wing and white supremacist radicalism seriously, dating back, at least, to the 1930s. Whatever the reason, it clearly colors the FBI's responses and predisposes them towards not taking forceful and purposeful action until calamity is already well underway.
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    FBI is an intelligence agency, not muscle. FBI did the bare minimum correct thing to do: they sent an email on January 5th talking about the risks. They should have done more but... technically yes, they did warn people. ------------- That's... maybe a C, or D grade. "Barely passing", but technically correct. Compared to the failures of the DoD to sit on their ass for 3 hours while Senators / House members literally plea for help is a different story.
    - imwillofficial 6y ago
      No it’s not. FBI is law enforcement. With (poor) Intel capability.
    - AlexCoventry 6y ago
      It has dual intelligence and law-enforcement functions, and both should have come into play, here.
    - bsanr2 6y ago
      FBI has law enforcement duties. It's, um, primarily law enforcement, in fact. In the alternate universe where our authorities did everything correctly, they showed up on January 2nd at the doors of the riot organizers and everyone who was going to show up in camo and arrested them. I'm giving you an F.
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        I mean yeah, they're law enforcement. But the particular law enforcement of the area was DC Capitol Police and the DC National Guard. I know the FBI does a few muscle jobs here and there, but only where they're authorized. I don't think the FBI has any direct responsibility to the security of the DC Capitol area. So as far as I'm concerned for this situation, they were intelligence (since FBI is still in charge of figuring out threats and relaying that information to local police forces).
- jariel 6y ago
  This is a misrepresentation. The Mayor of DC refused help in the days coming up to the protest and is very much on the record as saying they were 'well prepared'. [1] The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Trump and White House officials exacerbated the situation by refusing to call for help. But for the preparations that matter, the city was the problem. [1] https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/lawmakers-vow-to-investigate-police-after-capitol-breach/2532662/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/la...
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    > The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Lets pretend its 2:30pm. Protesters are storming the capitol. Mike Pence was forced into a bunker to hide. Shots fired inside the capitol, killing one of the invaders. Nansi Pelosi is on the Telephone, asking for help. Capitol Police are completely overrun. There are Youtube / Twitch livestreams of protesters breaking and entering inside the Capitol Building. There's all-to-wall coverage of the events on every single news channel and radio network in America. What do YOU do? 1. Send help? 2. Refuse to send help for 3 hours? Take a guess what the DoD did.
    - jariel 6y ago
      Trump is planning a major protest. The FBI says there are threats of violence. What do you do? 1) Accept the offer from the national guard et. al. and make preparations? 2) Refuse and say it's all good. The Mayor of DC and capitol police had every offer and chance to make basic preparations such that the National Guard would not have to be called in. [1] I'm not sure about the actions of the DoD, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that bureaucracy took a few hours to really move. The national guard is not something you can press a button and they magically appear. They offered to be present, they were turned down beforehand. I blame Trump for the entirety of this, he's the poison in the swamp, but there's no doubt the city leadership made a huge mistake in lack of preparation. [1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-police-rejected-offers-of-federal-help-to-quell-mob-1.5257994 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-polic...

So if the FBI knew about the threat, why weren't more precautions in place against rioting?

by zpeti 6y ago

So if the FBI knew about the threat, why weren't more precautions in place against rioting?

Because the DoD under Trump refused to provide support until 5pm. EDIT: Remember: DC is a TERRITORY, not a state. Which means its security comes under the command of the *President*, who wasn't exactly keen on stopping the riot. EDIT2: Remember the timeline: 12:30pm was around when the fence-line was breached. Capitol was breached by 2:30. DoD approving and sending support around 5pm is way late by any metric. Its clear that the executive branch was dragging their feet on the issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol#Wednesday,_January_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2021_storming_... > 5:08 p.m.: Army senior leaders relay to Major General Walker the Secretary of Defense's permission to deploy the DCNG to the Capitol.[55]

redis_mlc 6y ago
No, Pelosi was in charge of Capitol security: "Pelosi does have authority over the sergeant at arms’ office, but Irving rejected the request without consulting House leadership, according to multiple reports published in mid-January. Hammill also denied that Pelosi’s office was ever made aware of requests for the National Guard on Jan. 6. A spokesman for Irving has said that Irving did not consult with Pelosi." https://www.fresnobee.com/news/california/article249315725.html https://www.fresnobee.com/news/california/article249315725.h...
ganoushoreilly 6y ago
Look, Trump was a jackass, but this isn't factual at all. Both the National Guard and various individuals (Sergeant at arms, Capital Police Chief) asked for and or offered help. Each side was met with denial "due to optics". On the capital side the CPC asked the SAM numerous times and the SAM was ordered to not make the request (though the SAM himself wanted too). Who is in charge of the sam? Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. Both Political parties are full of old lying cronies that are doing nothing but stoking the fires of discord by lying and blaming the other party. The Capital Riots were a failure from all parties involved and no where has anyone asserted Trump refused to provide support. EDIT: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuffs-claims-national-guard-was-never-called-during-ri https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-c...
- dragontamer 6y ago
  > Look, Trump was a jackass, but this isn't factual at all. Why didn't Trump offer military support at 2:30pm, when the Capitol was breached? There's a 3-hour period here that's extremely uncomfortable. Wrestle with that 3-hour period between 2pm and 5pm, and come to your own conclusions. But facts be facts. In contrast: Once the DoD refused to support Pelosi, she called the Governor of Maryland to send in the Maryland National Guard. Governor Hogan refused: because that is tantamount to invasion unless they had DoD approval. Governor Hogan sent the troops in as soon as DoD approval was granted at 5pm. We know what the holdup was. These discussions are public and documented and timestamped. ------------- The one group in charge of defense: the Department of Defense (who is in charge of securing territories of the USA), watched on the sidelines between 12pm and 5pm before deciding to help. That's the facts. Maybe waiting was the right choice at 12pm or 1pm (when the hope was that the protesters would go away), but by 2:30pm, shots were fired and blood was spilled. And don't be naive. We all know that both Proud Boys and Oath Keepers explicitly try to recruit military members into their group. That whole "Defend your Oath after you leave the military" thing plays pretty strongly with military members.
  - ganoushoreilly 6y ago
    Because he doesn't have the authority to. Just like he couldn't just send in troops during the riots. It had to be National Guard, authorized by the governors. EDIT: I'd also like to point out to anyone reading that OP consistently edits and amends their original post after responses are made, which changes the narrative and or representation of information.
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      > It had to be National Guard, authorized by the governors. Who is in charge of the DC National Guard? Who has no governor? Spoiler alert: DoD / Trump. Seriously, look at the org-chart.
      - ganoushoreilly 6y ago
bsanr2 6y ago
FBI isn't under the DoD. The problem is an institution-wide reluctance to take right-wing and white supremacist radicalism seriously, dating back, at least, to the 1930s. Whatever the reason, it clearly colors the FBI's responses and predisposes them towards not taking forceful and purposeful action until calamity is already well underway.
- dragontamer 6y ago
  FBI is an intelligence agency, not muscle. FBI did the bare minimum correct thing to do: they sent an email on January 5th talking about the risks. They should have done more but... technically yes, they did warn people. ------------- That's... maybe a C, or D grade. "Barely passing", but technically correct. Compared to the failures of the DoD to sit on their ass for 3 hours while Senators / House members literally plea for help is a different story.
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    No it’s not. FBI is law enforcement. With (poor) Intel capability.
  - AlexCoventry 6y ago
    It has dual intelligence and law-enforcement functions, and both should have come into play, here.
  - bsanr2 6y ago
    FBI has law enforcement duties. It's, um, primarily law enforcement, in fact. In the alternate universe where our authorities did everything correctly, they showed up on January 2nd at the doors of the riot organizers and everyone who was going to show up in camo and arrested them. I'm giving you an F.
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      I mean yeah, they're law enforcement. But the particular law enforcement of the area was DC Capitol Police and the DC National Guard. I know the FBI does a few muscle jobs here and there, but only where they're authorized. I don't think the FBI has any direct responsibility to the security of the DC Capitol area. So as far as I'm concerned for this situation, they were intelligence (since FBI is still in charge of figuring out threats and relaying that information to local police forces).
jariel 6y ago
This is a misrepresentation. The Mayor of DC refused help in the days coming up to the protest and is very much on the record as saying they were 'well prepared'. [1] The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Trump and White House officials exacerbated the situation by refusing to call for help. But for the preparations that matter, the city was the problem. [1] https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/lawmakers-vow-to-investigate-police-after-capitol-breach/2532662/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/la...
- dragontamer 6y ago
  > The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Lets pretend its 2:30pm. Protesters are storming the capitol. Mike Pence was forced into a bunker to hide. Shots fired inside the capitol, killing one of the invaders. Nansi Pelosi is on the Telephone, asking for help. Capitol Police are completely overrun. There are Youtube / Twitch livestreams of protesters breaking and entering inside the Capitol Building. There's all-to-wall coverage of the events on every single news channel and radio network in America. What do YOU do? 1. Send help? 2. Refuse to send help for 3 hours? Take a guess what the DoD did.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Trump is planning a major protest. The FBI says there are threats of violence. What do you do? 1) Accept the offer from the national guard et. al. and make preparations? 2) Refuse and say it's all good. The Mayor of DC and capitol police had every offer and chance to make basic preparations such that the National Guard would not have to be called in. [1] I'm not sure about the actions of the DoD, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that bureaucracy took a few hours to really move. The national guard is not something you can press a button and they magically appear. They offered to be present, they were turned down beforehand. I blame Trump for the entirety of this, he's the poison in the swamp, but there's no doubt the city leadership made a huge mistake in lack of preparation. [1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-police-rejected-offers-of-federal-help-to-quell-mob-1.5257994 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-polic...