11 ms·
Documents show Amazon is aware drivers pee in bottles and even defecate enroute
- mrits 6y agoI think the defecation says more about the driver than the company.
- backtoyoujim 6y agoWe can talk about Amazon's hiring standards in another post.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago> We understand that DA’s [driver associates] may have emergencies while on-road, and especially during Covid, DAs have struggled to find bathrooms while delivering. > Halie Marie Brown ... told The Intercept that the practice “happens because we are literally implicitly forced to do so, otherwise we will end up losing our jobs for too many ‘undelivered packages.’” Sounds like there may be a little more to it than you suggest.
- mrits 6y agoThere really isn't. Peeing in a bottle has been going on for decades in UPS/FedEX. Actually pooping in your truck and putting all of your customers at risk of disease so you can meet your quota is not sane human behavior.
- prpl 6y agoI floated around grocery stores quite a bit in the early/mid 2000s, working at several locations and various jobs. Meth was fairly common among the grocery night stockers, especially in the big stores. Often times management has some idea of this, but it was usually don’t ask, don’t tell, especially in the union stores, until the point somebody wanted a person fired.
- User23 6y agoI assume some fairly high percentage of FAANG developers are on some kind of lawfully obtained prescription stimulant.
- throw14082020 6y agoPrescription stimulant? What do you mean?
- Synaesthesia 6y agoLike Ritalin or amphetamine in prescribed form, as ADHD medicine.
- aaomidi 6y agoAdderall.
- etxm 6y agoProbably Adderall or modafinil
- gunshai 6y agoGood thing modafinil isn't a stimulant though
- etxm 6y agoThe interwebs seem to think they are > Modafinil, a novel stimulant which has several remarkable features... [1] > Modafinil is considered a stimulant doping agent [2] > Adderall and modafinil are central nervous system stimulant medications (psychostimulants). [3] - [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1675850/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1675850/ - [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil - [3] https://americanaddictioncenters.org/adderall/vs-modafinil https://americanaddictioncenters.org/adderall/vs-modafinil
- 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- simonebrunozzi 6y ago> You don’t really believe the peeing in bottles thing, do you? If that were true, nobody would work for us. > The truth is that we have over a million incredible employees around the world who are proud of what they do, and have great wages and health care from day one. Amazon's PR (one of the best in the industry) at its finest. Minimize/deny/ignore the issue raised, and quickly bridge to something else entirely. Disclaimer: worked at AWS 2008-2014. Opinions my own.
- nerdponx 6y agoAh, the old economics joke: > Two economists are walking down the street, when they pass buy a luxury car dealership. One economist says, "I really want that Ferrari!" The other economist replies, "Clearly you don't!" And the other one that isn't as relevant but is funny: > Two economists are walking down the street, when one of them sees something on the ground. She says, "hey, is that a $20 bill on the ground?" The other economist replies, "obviously not, otherwise someone would have picked it up already!"
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y agoNever heard the first one, but it makes sense.
- neartheplain 6y agoDoes the first joke refer to the fact that if they wanted the Ferrari they’d have bought it already, or that if they really wanted the Ferrari, they’d have chosen a more lucrative profession than economics?
- madaxe_again 6y agoThe former - it’s a dig at “efficient markets”.
- nerdponx 6y agoMore specifically, the first one is a dig at anyone who tries to infer preferences from behavior, without considering or knowing the full set of alternatives available to the individual. In this case, even a well-paid tenured economist probably could not afford the Ferrari without making some significant sacrifices elsewhere. So it's not that they are choosing between "Ferrari" and "no Ferrari", it's that they are choosing between "Ferrari and I don't have any money and my wife leaves me" and "no Ferrari and I keep my retirement savings and my wife doesn't leave me." The relevance here is that, for some people, their best option might actually be "stay at horrible job at Amazon where I'm forced to piss in a bottle", not because they like pissing in bottles, but because the alternatives are actually worse. The only thing you can tell from a person's behavior is that, to that person at that particular time, whatever they did/chose seemed like the best option.
- cletus 6y agoMy understanding is that this is pretty common for every courier including UPS and FedEx. Why? Because the driver will have a set of deliveries. Once they’re finished those they’re done for the day. In NYC at least finding a restroom and finding parking (even double parking) beat it takes valuable time. It saves time to pee in a bottle. This just isn’t unique to Amazon is all I’m saying.
- bombcar 6y ago“Trucker Bombs” are well known - and “professional” improvements on the milk jug are sold (as are adapters for women).
- Symbiote 6y agoI could save time at work by peeing in a bottle at my desk. But my employer (and the law here) doesn't expect me to do this, even if the nearest toilet is several minutes walk away.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y agoYou're not considered a low grade commodity like these companies consider their workers.
- ericmcer 6y agoYes surely if these truckers were valued more Amazon would... install bathrooms in every van? Add a series of Amazon only toilets all over the country for drivers?
- CharlesW 6y ago> Add a series of Amazon only toilets all over the country for drivers? Why not? Every Amazon Locker could have an Amazon Pooper.
- colanderman 6y ago
- bluedino 6y agoLots of truckers so this.
- samsquire 6y agoI'm happy to pay more for deliveries if people have time to take a leisurely comfort break. We need privatized toilets where you review the person ahead of you for how clean they left the toilet. Unlock the door with a special PIN.
- smhg 6y agoNext step would be the need to upload pictures before and after so you have the ability to contest any false claims. I'm partially kidding, but seeing how much time I spend 'starting' and closing a car in a car-sharing app (making pictures of all corners, all areas), a better approach to these processes would be welcome.
- Igelau 6y agoUber Yelp for pooping.
- xzel 6y agoWasn't there an app that did this? You could review public toilet and mark stores that let people use their toilet.
- mycologos 6y agoAmazon is, to me, a glaring example of just how little people are willing to translate outrage over capitalism and wage slavery into voting with their feet. I've literally heard people trash Amazon's labor practices, admit that they've been Prime members for years and will continue using them, and then express hope that the government will step in and do something to Amazon. Since many of these people are individuals I like on a personal level, I don't push on this, but there's something disturbingly infantile about it.
- jclulow 6y agoIt's not infantile to believe that one of the roles of government should be to protect individuals from the gargantuan power amassed by corporations. There is no way to avoid capitalism through personal responsibility.
- mycologos 6y agoI agree that it's reasonable to ask one's government to intervene against a powerful and possibly monopolistic corporation. However, I think this should be accompanied by the personal responsibility of avoiding that corporation. I'm sure there are people that really rely on Amazon deliveries, but for most consumers it comes down to it being slightly cheaper and slightly more convenient. It seems like such a small amount of personal responsibility to ask of people to divest from this particular company if they think it's bad.
- ajcodez 6y agoMost consumers expect that all available options in the marketplace comply with all regulations, and then make a surface level decision on the best option. So if there’s a company that is not competing in a fair way, there should be regulation to limit unfair behaviour (imo) -- otherwise every consumer needs to know every detail about every company and process and purchase with integrity.
- danaris 6y agoLook up the phrase "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism." We live in a time when the economic power of the middle class is eroding rapidly, and being able to order cheaper goods from Amazon with fast free shipping was a huge benefit even before we started living through a global pandemic. It would take a truly staggering percentage of people around the world to choose to boycott Amazon before they actually started feeling it—and that wouldn't even touch some of their other major sources of revenue, like AWS, which provides it with a lot of income these days.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ohgodplsno 6y ago9 comments at the time of writing this, and three of them are already saying this a "normal" practice. Let's get something very clear: making your employees work insane hours for a simple delivery job, at such a rate that _you literally cannot deliver your daily packages if you do not shit in a bag on the side of the road_ should be criminal. Seeing people with a cushy little job in IT paid more than 90% of their fellow countrymen consider this as "normal" because they need to have their cheap chinese products delivered the same day need to take a large step back. This is not to go home earlier. It's the exact same thing as their warehouses, where the targets are set so impossibly high that you have no choice but to ignore your bodily needs. Whichever manager forces this onto their employees is at the very least a sociopath.
- LorenPechtel 6y agoYou don't understand what many of us are saying--even with *zero* time pressure this will happen. If you're paid piecework it's simply common sense.
- Jaygles 6y agoBefore I got into software I worked mostly food service and sometimes found myself in a position where it would have been literally impossible to complete the duties assigned to me in the time I was given to do them without severely compromising safety. And at other times, impossible to do them even while compromising safety. I always wondered if firings due to those types of situations should be legal. The failure is obviously on the bean counters who demand a certain amount of work done with inadequate labor, but blame often falls on those performing the labor.
- vsskanth 6y agoHow do UPS USPS and FedEx drivers tackle this issue ? Restroom access is a problem and it's important to come up with some proposals especially if we want more women to be able to work these jobs
- evan_ 6y agoMy observation is that they use restrooms in office buildings on their route. Idk what they do on residential routes.
- djur 6y agoAnd one of the emails here notes that the problem has worsened with the pandemic, since office buildings are often closed. That checks out, at least.
- james-skemp 6y agoGas stations would be my guess, based upon what I've seen. Our UPS driver at least tends to stop over by one right down the road from us. We have a regular driver, which likely helps create a bond with the staff, so you can skip the need to buy something every time.
- azinman2 6y agoProbably the same. Why would it be any different?
- bbarnett 6y agoWomen can pee in a bottle too: https://www.amazon.com/Standing-Resistant-Urination-Portable-Reusable/dp/B07YYGVTZK https://www.amazon.com/Standing-Resistant-Urination-Portable... Equality often means, delicate sensitivities of either sex, are not considered.
- wutbrodo 6y agoI wonder why this is so downvoted? If you think peeing in a bottle is degrading, it doesn't seem that using a product like this would be any more degrading than the male method. I have women friends who use devices like these when we hike and there's nothing weird or embarrassing about it for any of us. Though it's important to note that women's bathroom needs are different from men in more ways than just the mechanics of urination. For one, menstruation is a recurring situation that has specific bathroom needs that a bottle doesn't really address.
- phkahler 6y agoSince Amazon constantly tracks their employees, they could mandate that they take their breaks or be penalised. They would rather not do that and try to deal with biology some other way.
- evan_ 6y agoSomeone needs to start urban truck stops. Convert storefronts in centralized areas into a space with bathrooms, showers, maybe some snacks and sundries. Keep it clean and climate-controlled. Maybe it’s a gas station too, but the idea is to have them scattered around town and easy to build/operate, so maybe not. Work out a deal with UPS/FedEx/Amazon but also Uber, Lyft, Postmates etc where they pay a membership and all of their drivers can use the space.
- maxerickson 6y agoHow about just selling businesses signs that read "Driver's Welcome", have a recognizable design, and carry the message that they are welcome to use the restroom without buying anything? I don't know about urban core businesses, but in most places, it's already the case that no one working at McDonald's/etc cares if you walk in, use the bathroom and leave.
- fakedang 6y agoThese companies wouldn't pay for it anyways, and you have a significant maintenance cost.
- evan_ 6y agoThe companies that pay for access can use it in their marketing. “You can feel good about ordering from our food delivery service, our drivers don’t have to pee in bottles.”
- wutbrodo 6y agoIt's regularly commented-on that the reason we don't have widespread public bathrooms like many other developed and Middle-income countries is due to insane laws prohibiting against pay toilets, on the grounds that. Turns out when you don't allow pay toilets, you end up with no public toilets at all, even in places like San Francisco where the government attempts to pour money into providing them. It's a very "American left" pitfall: make the victims of your "compassion" worse off as long as you avoid the appearance of inequity. See also: payday loans, boxing gloves, etc
- ericmcer 6y agoHow do you fix this? Install bathrooms in trucks? I have peed in a bottle when driving just to save the 20mins it would take to pull off, look for a bathroom I’m allowed to use, maybe have to buy something, figure out how to get back on the freeway. You can pee in a bottle without even slowing down, if it was a common occurrence you could make it a very easy and efficient process.
- jfk13 6y agoYou pee in a bottle without even slowing down? That sounds possibly even worse than using your cellphone while driving.
- heelix 6y agoI rent a small 2 seater airplane. On long cross countries where the wind causes problems, it is not uncommon for the fuel to last longer than the bladder. Our rental shop had to put out a similar message - if you used a pee bottle, don't leave it in the plane. Most of the time you find that 'half drunk bottle of yellow Gatorade'.... it was not.
- ta988 6y agoThis is especially true in US where there are almost no public restrooms . And as there are no trashes, we see those bottles and boxes littering the streets. At least in the large city I live in.
- yaya69 6y agoNecessity is the mother of invention I suggest a combination of Citibike and Airbnb perhaps named Citipee or Airpnp
- firefoxd 6y agoI have a question: why do drivers pee in a bottle? A few years ago, I called an Uber and a lady showed up visually uncomfortable. We drove in silence for 2 minutes before I asked her if she would like to stop at a gas station. I knew to ask that because my previous driver have had the exact same problem and told me he had to stop. He told me that sometimes he has no choice but to use a bottle. Is Uber intentionally making drivers pee in bottles? No. But it happens by design. When a driver is matched with another rider before the current ride is over, she doesn't get a break. She can decline the next ride, but from what I learned you get penalized if you reject enough riders. Is the solution wearing a concealed pouch where the driver can relieve himself discreetly? Um, no. I think a simple button on the UI that say 10 minutes break solves it. Riders pay the price by making the ride slightly late, but that's a damn good compromise. So why do Amazon drivers relieve themselves in a bottle? Because sometimes they have 240 packages to deliver in one shift. And when they don't do a perfect job, customers complain and they get penalized. Unlike with Uber, a simple UI update doesn't fix the problem. The customer expects same day delivery. Is it Amazon's fault? Yes, they promised impossibly convenient delivery times. Fixing the issue means longer delivery. Are we willing to compromise?
- plandis 6y agoI grew up knowing several people in long haul trucking / delivery and this problem isn’t uniquely Amazon. Chances are if you’ve bought products that are shipped somewhere in the US you’ve been paying for pee labor. I also don’t think mandatory delivery targets are the sole reason. Even if you go right now onto the Amazon flex subreddit you can find people asking questions about peeing. Those drivers accept in blocks of a few minutes to hours, they could wait, find a bathroom, then take another delivery but it’s less money. This is a societal problem, it’s just Amazon that is having it exposed for them.
- rdiddly 6y ago"pee labor" LOL
- hairband 6y agoThere are 3 parties involved here: Driver, Amazon, and Customer. Your comment makes it sound like either the driver should compromise and pee in bottles, or the customer should compromise and accept late deliveries. Why can't Amazon compromise, and hire more delivery drivers?
- ipsocannibal 6y agoRepost: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26592846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26592846
- giantg2 6y agoI was in a class in high school when a teacher wouldn't let a kid go to the bathroom (semi-justifiably). He ended up peeing in a bottle discretely during class.
- duesex 6y agoNot surprising at all. Here's a detailed post on how Amazon treats its Software engineers: https://www.teamblind.com/post/PIP-culture-at-Amazon-BUdioYMQ https://www.teamblind.com/post/PIP-culture-at-Amazon-BUdioYM... I expect this comment to be downvoted to oblivion as well, by the PR team.
- blueside 6y agoAside from the obvious reasons, surely some health authorities would have a problem with a company that knowingly has their employees "relieving themselves" and not washing their hands before handling the packages?
- cannabis_sam 6y agoWorld’s richest man forces desperate people to pee in bottles... Seems like a sane culture.
- GekkePrutser 6y agoI am so going to use rubber gloves to receive my parcels from now on :)
- dusted 6y agoThere's a market for trucks with drivers seat toilets.