6 ms·

It's an overreaction to a failed coup. The problem is the power itself, who can wield it or foresee the consequences? As another poster says here. It's the des

by loopz 6y ago

It's an overreaction to a failed coup. The problem is the power itself, who can wield it or foresee the consequences? As another poster says here. It's the design of these social platforms that pose risks and harm, both to individuals and society. After all, people become depressed and upset using social media. So something's amiss.

kukx 6y ago
I do not think there was a coup. Yes people trespassed and vandalized, but that is about it. There was no plan or effort to take power, as far as I know. Of course any vandalism is bad and we have seen too much of it recently. The praise of censorship on the Dems side is not new. And it will only get worse, especially as the govt abuses economy by giving away massive amounts of money and getting into even bigger debt.
- loopz 6y ago
  The organisation was abysmal, people were led astray and lied to. But the threat and originating intent to forcibly change the election outcome was real.
  - concordDance 6y ago
    They did think they were affirming the correct outcome rather than changing it. Whatever else you can say, most of those people genuinely believed Trump won the election.
    - loopz 6y ago
      Yes, after months of grooming, even before the election was conducted. If people knew there were problems beforehand, why did the people in charge fail to do preventative measures? Merits of that leadership: Failing to improve the election process, even attempting sabotaging Postal Services, and then crying crocodile tears after grooming millions to a false attack.
- tim333 6y ago
  Trump seemed fairly determined to change the election outcome, presumably by getting some votes overturned. The fact that the plan was kind of disorganised and hopeless doesn't mean it didn't exist. >"The vice-president has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors,” Mr Trump wrote on Twitter. > “I hope that our great vice-president . . . comes through for us,” Mr Trump told the rally. (https://www.ft.com/content/6ff4a677-eb2e-438e-ac48-bb5da5a0e588 https://www.ft.com/content/6ff4a677-eb2e-438e-ac48-bb5da5a0e...) Sounded like he wanted to use the rally to pressure Pence to "reject fraudulently chosen electors" and hence change the election outcome. Not sure if you call that a coup attempt or not but some people don't really buy the fraudulently chosen electors bit.
- shlant 6y ago
  I think you could make the argument it wasn't a coup, but you'd have a hard time making any meaningful points. To say that "people trespassed and vandalized, but that is about it" however, is a gross mischaracterization. Here are some things that constitute WAY more than what you described: - Planting of explosive devises - Proud Boys in organized and coordinated groups with zip ties and walkie talkies (charged with conspiracy for allegedly staging planned missions in the Capitol) - The general goal of preventing a democratic process from taking place in order to overturn an election - 5 people dead including a police officer - SEVERAL Secret‑level laptops were stolen I don't think you are providing a good-faith interpretation of the events.
  - ThomPete 6y ago
    thats not a coup, thats obstruction of procedure and didny have a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding. Calling it a coup is bad-faith interpretation of the event.
    - 8b16380d 6y ago
      Careful, you’re committing wrongthink
      - BrianOnHN 6y ago
        > wrongthink What is this, the new "fake news" battle cry of the degenerates? I realize software devs make for an interesting, and even intellectual sort of degenerate, but still degenerate.
    - danaris 6y ago
      When the "procedure" involved is the certification of votes for the new President, then yeah, that's an attempted coup. And something doesn't have to have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding at its illegal and seditious aims to remain illegal and seditious.
      - ThomPete 6y ago
yonaguska 6y ago
This has been going on all last year, much longer than the sixth. Congress is just shaking down social media for lobbying bucks again. And the social media companies actually want the regulatory capture. It's all a show. Eventually big social will write some legislation for congress to pass, congress-critters get paid and get to say they did something while big social media gets further entrenched. Meanwhile, Biden's DHS announces that they will be working closely with technology and social media companies to preemptively snatch up potential "domestic terrorists". I think the consequences are clear. I think many people are in denial however.
glandberg 6y ago
How was that a coup? It was a disorganized powerless group of people who happened to make it into the capitol because of lax security. At best this is something like the Reichstagsbrand. Rationally a completely inconsequential event, but politically exploited for another round of increasing totalitarianism.
- danjac 6y ago
  It's more in common with Guy Fawkes' attempt to blow up parliament, or the failed Beer Hall putsch in 1923. Both were attempted but poorly organized coups to overthrow the government of the day. Yes it failed, yes it was poorly organized, but that doesn't matter. If I try to hold up a bank using a water pistol instead of a gun while dressed as a clown I'm still attempting a bank robbery.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    The obituary would read "danjac, village idiot" rather than "danjac, bank robber". At some point, possibly the moment you draw the water pistol, you aren't making a serious go of it. If the standard is that low then the US has coups semi-regularly. As in, maybe annually. It should realistically be more often than that, except most violent protesters protest government actions by targeting random businesses rather than the government (eg, Occupy Wall-street as opposed to Occupy the Offices of the People Handing Out The Bailouts).
    - loopz 6y ago
      Not when it concerns top leaders in charge and failure to act responsibly and constitutionally.
- MrMan 6y ago
  Organized dry run by paramilitaries, also accurately describes it.
- ben_w 6y ago
  """Approximately two thousand Nazis marched on the [building] in the city centre, but were confronted by a police cordon, which resulted in the deaths of 16 Nazi Party members and four police officers.""" That’s a description of the Beer Hall Putsch, just for comparison to the events in Washington. There is plenty of evidence that the people who invaded congress wanted to overthrow the election results and keep Trump as President, that many refused to believe that Trump had even lost, and some appeared to be “heavily armed” (though given America’s gun fetish, I don’t know what that means): https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806ea8dc15a2c04f2a68acd6b55cace https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806e...

by loopz 6y ago

kukx 6y ago

I do not think there was a coup. Yes people trespassed and vandalized, but that is about it. There was no plan or effort to take power, as far as I know. Of course any vandalism is bad and we have seen too much of it recently. The praise of censorship on the Dems side is not new. And it will only get worse, especially as the govt abuses economy by giving away massive amounts of money and getting into even bigger debt.

loopz 6y ago
The organisation was abysmal, people were led astray and lied to. But the threat and originating intent to forcibly change the election outcome was real.
- concordDance 6y ago
  They did think they were affirming the correct outcome rather than changing it. Whatever else you can say, most of those people genuinely believed Trump won the election.
  - loopz 6y ago
    Yes, after months of grooming, even before the election was conducted. If people knew there were problems beforehand, why did the people in charge fail to do preventative measures? Merits of that leadership: Failing to improve the election process, even attempting sabotaging Postal Services, and then crying crocodile tears after grooming millions to a false attack.
tim333 6y ago
Trump seemed fairly determined to change the election outcome, presumably by getting some votes overturned. The fact that the plan was kind of disorganised and hopeless doesn't mean it didn't exist. >"The vice-president has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors,” Mr Trump wrote on Twitter. > “I hope that our great vice-president . . . comes through for us,” Mr Trump told the rally. (https://www.ft.com/content/6ff4a677-eb2e-438e-ac48-bb5da5a0e588 https://www.ft.com/content/6ff4a677-eb2e-438e-ac48-bb5da5a0e...) Sounded like he wanted to use the rally to pressure Pence to "reject fraudulently chosen electors" and hence change the election outcome. Not sure if you call that a coup attempt or not but some people don't really buy the fraudulently chosen electors bit.
shlant 6y ago
I think you could make the argument it wasn't a coup, but you'd have a hard time making any meaningful points. To say that "people trespassed and vandalized, but that is about it" however, is a gross mischaracterization. Here are some things that constitute WAY more than what you described: - Planting of explosive devises - Proud Boys in organized and coordinated groups with zip ties and walkie talkies (charged with conspiracy for allegedly staging planned missions in the Capitol) - The general goal of preventing a democratic process from taking place in order to overturn an election - 5 people dead including a police officer - SEVERAL Secret‑level laptops were stolen I don't think you are providing a good-faith interpretation of the events.
- ThomPete 6y ago
  thats not a coup, thats obstruction of procedure and didny have a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding. Calling it a coup is bad-faith interpretation of the event.
  - 8b16380d 6y ago
    Careful, you’re committing wrongthink
    - BrianOnHN 6y ago
      > wrongthink What is this, the new "fake news" battle cry of the degenerates? I realize software devs make for an interesting, and even intellectual sort of degenerate, but still degenerate.
  - danaris 6y ago
    When the "procedure" involved is the certification of votes for the new President, then yeah, that's an attempted coup. And something doesn't have to have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding at its illegal and seditious aims to remain illegal and seditious.
    - ThomPete 6y ago

yonaguska 6y ago

This has been going on all last year, much longer than the sixth. Congress is just shaking down social media for lobbying bucks again. And the social media companies actually want the regulatory capture. It's all a show. Eventually big social will write some legislation for congress to pass, congress-critters get paid and get to say they did something while big social media gets further entrenched. Meanwhile, Biden's DHS announces that they will be working closely with technology and social media companies to preemptively snatch up potential "domestic terrorists". I think the consequences are clear. I think many people are in denial however.

glandberg 6y ago

How was that a coup? It was a disorganized powerless group of people who happened to make it into the capitol because of lax security. At best this is something like the Reichstagsbrand. Rationally a completely inconsequential event, but politically exploited for another round of increasing totalitarianism.

danjac 6y ago
It's more in common with Guy Fawkes' attempt to blow up parliament, or the failed Beer Hall putsch in 1923. Both were attempted but poorly organized coups to overthrow the government of the day. Yes it failed, yes it was poorly organized, but that doesn't matter. If I try to hold up a bank using a water pistol instead of a gun while dressed as a clown I'm still attempting a bank robbery.
- roenxi 6y ago
  The obituary would read "danjac, village idiot" rather than "danjac, bank robber". At some point, possibly the moment you draw the water pistol, you aren't making a serious go of it. If the standard is that low then the US has coups semi-regularly. As in, maybe annually. It should realistically be more often than that, except most violent protesters protest government actions by targeting random businesses rather than the government (eg, Occupy Wall-street as opposed to Occupy the Offices of the People Handing Out The Bailouts).
  - loopz 6y ago
    Not when it concerns top leaders in charge and failure to act responsibly and constitutionally.
MrMan 6y ago
Organized dry run by paramilitaries, also accurately describes it.
ben_w 6y ago
"""Approximately two thousand Nazis marched on the [building] in the city centre, but were confronted by a police cordon, which resulted in the deaths of 16 Nazi Party members and four police officers.""" That’s a description of the Beer Hall Putsch, just for comparison to the events in Washington. There is plenty of evidence that the people who invaded congress wanted to overthrow the election results and keep Trump as President, that many refused to believe that Trump had even lost, and some appeared to be “heavily armed” (though given America’s gun fetish, I don’t know what that means): https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806ea8dc15a2c04f2a68acd6b55cace https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-trump-supporters-1806e...