3 ms·

Yes 1 The overhead cost of employing the union administrators (union dues) You have the skills and knowledge to goto court? and some times you need to have

Yes 1 The overhead cost of employing the union administrators (union dues) You have the skills and knowledge to goto court? and some times you need to have an external person to be tough with the employer. 2 Gatekeeping and time-wasting via official tests and grooming processes What is this tests @ grooming M&P unions are not medieval guilds or the IEEE 3 Could make it harder for workers to break off and start their own competing companies, leading to the biggest companies monopolizing the workforce" Why ? and the number that do that is miniscule And pensions sorry you absolutely need pensions and you need pensions taken away from employers direct control and run by trustees

j_walter 6y ago
Union pensions haven't exactly faired well in the last few decades and it's not because employers had control over them. Lucky for them a shit ton of money was just given out in the latest COVID bill to help them...no strings attached of course so the problem will return. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-relief-bill-gives-86-billion-bailout-to-failing-union-pension-plans.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-relief-bill-gives-86-b... https://www.pbgc.gov/sites/default/files/fy-2019-projections-report.pdf https://www.pbgc.gov/sites/default/files/fy-2019-projections... No scenario shows the Multiemployer Program remaining solvent beyond FY 2027 under current law.
lumost 6y ago
The pattern in the US has been that Union's provide an uncheckable form of power for the individuals who run the union. These individuals then make changes that favor the union in the long term. Union run pensions mean someone at the union get's paid for managing it. Union run negotiations mean that someone at the union gets paid for the negotiation. Union run pay debates means the union flattens compensation to keep workers unified. I'd be curious for union models which effectively empower a check on union power by the workers.
- Mauricebranagh 6y ago
  The annual conference does? I have certainly changed policy (though Kieth Flets branch stole my thunder) and turned over the executive :-) More professional unions do tend to have more lay activists who are more open to exercising control over the full-timers I feel. By pensions I meant you have a separation as in the UK where the trustees from both sides at at arms length and Hermes (a huge pension fund) trustees sacked the managers and is now self managed at a reduced TER. And remember not all developers live in the US.
- teachrdan 6y ago
  I wonder if you've ever actually worked in a unionized workplace. I used to be a teacher in Oakland, CA, and I was part of the contract negotiation (bargaining) team. I was elected to that position and it was unpaid. For bigger locals than mine there are certainly paid negotiators. That makes sense, because you're bargaining with management, who is paid to negotiate with you. You generally don't want amateurs (like me!) with no experience going up against professionals who are trained and coached in contract negotiation. > an uncheckable form of power for the individuals who run the union > I'd be curious for union models which effectively empower a check on union power by the workers. I'm not sure you understand what a union is. Most positions of power (the "individuals" I understand you to be referring to above) are elected. Sure there are bureaucrats who are appointed rather than elected. But what's the alternative? The workplace has its own power structure and, to be effective, a union generally needs its own. Don't like it? Run for a position in the union and change it!

j_walter 6y ago

Union pensions haven't exactly faired well in the last few decades and it's not because employers had control over them. Lucky for them a shit ton of money was just given out in the latest COVID bill to help them...no strings attached of course so the problem will return. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-relief-bill-gives-86-billion-bailout-to-failing-union-pension-plans.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-relief-bill-gives-86-b... https://www.pbgc.gov/sites/default/files/fy-2019-projections-report.pdf https://www.pbgc.gov/sites/default/files/fy-2019-projections... No scenario shows the Multiemployer Program remaining solvent beyond FY 2027 under current law.

lumost 6y ago

The pattern in the US has been that Union's provide an uncheckable form of power for the individuals who run the union. These individuals then make changes that favor the union in the long term. Union run pensions mean someone at the union get's paid for managing it. Union run negotiations mean that someone at the union gets paid for the negotiation. Union run pay debates means the union flattens compensation to keep workers unified. I'd be curious for union models which effectively empower a check on union power by the workers.

Mauricebranagh 6y ago
The annual conference does? I have certainly changed policy (though Kieth Flets branch stole my thunder) and turned over the executive :-) More professional unions do tend to have more lay activists who are more open to exercising control over the full-timers I feel. By pensions I meant you have a separation as in the UK where the trustees from both sides at at arms length and Hermes (a huge pension fund) trustees sacked the managers and is now self managed at a reduced TER. And remember not all developers live in the US.
teachrdan 6y ago
I wonder if you've ever actually worked in a unionized workplace. I used to be a teacher in Oakland, CA, and I was part of the contract negotiation (bargaining) team. I was elected to that position and it was unpaid. For bigger locals than mine there are certainly paid negotiators. That makes sense, because you're bargaining with management, who is paid to negotiate with you. You generally don't want amateurs (like me!) with no experience going up against professionals who are trained and coached in contract negotiation. > an uncheckable form of power for the individuals who run the union > I'd be curious for union models which effectively empower a check on union power by the workers. I'm not sure you understand what a union is. Most positions of power (the "individuals" I understand you to be referring to above) are elected. Sure there are bureaucrats who are appointed rather than elected. But what's the alternative? The workplace has its own power structure and, to be effective, a union generally needs its own. Don't like it? Run for a position in the union and change it!