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I believed that the L meant libre but libre when translated from Spanish to English literly translates as 'free' So in floss, that would be free free open sour

I believed that the L meant libre but libre when translated from Spanish to English literly translates as 'free' So in floss, that would be free free open source software. Which doesn't seem right? Unless there is another meaning to libre I'm missing?

ohthehugemanate 6y ago
It's to disambiguate the english uses of the word "free." It's free as in freedom, not free as in beer. Libre (in French, as it is used in the acronym) only means the former.
- vorticalbox 6y ago
  That makes more sense thanks.
- darkwater 6y ago
  In Spanish as well, because the other meaning of the English "free" (as in free beer) is translated as "gratis", which comes straight from Latin.
  - agustif 6y ago
    It seems the oxford dictionary also has an entry for -gratis- in the english language (middle-age from the same latin origin, as -late middle english- Interesting!
  - ModernMech 6y ago
    Given that, I think we should change the acronym to GLOSS. edit: could mean Gratis and/or Libre Open Source Software
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      That would enshrine the exact misunderstanding that this thread is trying to correct. Free software is not necessarily gratis.
      - ModernMech 6y ago
        Then why not call it LOSS? The F has to mean something, and if it doesn't mean libre it either means gratis or it's redundant and confusing. GLOSS could be a different thing, to differentiate it from PLOSS (paid libre open source software).
        Shared404 6y ago
        The F is to keep the FSF happy. I do like the idea of distinction between GLOSS and PLOSS, but we've got enough acronym soup at this point that I'd say just stick with FLOSS. Also, many people who only speak English don't know the word Libre.
        mamon 6y ago
        > Then why not call it LOSS? Because then people would think they are losing something by using it? /s
        necovek 6y ago
        Free Software was coined by (probably) RMS to highlight how users of such software are getting a number of _freedoms_: namely those to use, modify and share that software onwards (with or without their modifications). It is in opposition to "restricted" software where you are restricted in all of those. (Copyleft software restrict others from adding more restrictions, which is defensible but some BSD proponents disagree) Libre is, as many have said, just the Latin word for Free. You'd still have to explain what it means in this context. "Open Source" has similar problems: many think that it's enough for source code to be available for inspection for software to be called "Open Source", but it is just a another attempt to market a philosophy under a particular name. These constructs are created to have a special meaning to promote an ideology, and are thus usually capitalized in English. This is nothing uncommon, and attempting to use these—now accepted—phrases to mean something else is bound to cause confusion. So, just like you learn what a "programming language" or "HyperText Transport Protocol" is (yes, one transfers a lot more than just "HyperText" over it), if you are in IT, one should learn what "Free Software" and "Open Source" mean.
    - muskox2 6y ago
      Well, not all libre software is gratis.
- teekert 6y ago
  Indeed, in Dutch we have "Vrij" (Libre, free as in freedom) and "Gratis" (a term I sometimes see used on international fora as well, meaning free, as in beer). Since English does not have this distinction Libre was used. I never ever associated it with Liberal.
  - rob74 6y ago
    In German too, "frei" and "gratis/kostenlos". However, paradoxically "free beer" is actually "Freibier", not "Gratis-Bier"...
    - necovek 6y ago
      With beer it's a bit special, because beers you didn't pay for have some freedom: they can decide to leave your stomach even against your will back the way they came :D But if you paid for it, they ain't allowed to, of course.
cyphar 6y ago
The issue is that the word "free" in English has two meanings, while other languages have two separate words for each meaning (gratis = free of charge, libre = free as in freedom). The reason why L means Libre is to emphasise that the "free" in "free software" refers to the libre meaning of the word "free", not necessarily the gratis meaning. This is also what the phrase "free as in speech, not as in beer" attempts to disambiguate.
- hanche 6y ago
  And then, just to complicate matters, there is free beer – “Free as in free speech”. http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe
rapnie 6y ago
It refers to the civil liberties kind of Free. You have the term "free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. The Libre makes it clear that the first kind of Free is referred to here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software Update: The distinction is important. It also entails that people should be able to earn a living by providing FLOSS software. Many people that don't know much about FLOSS think of it as the "Free beer" variant (something promoted by much of big tech, which is seemingly free). There can be good business models attached to FLOSS (though devs have a very hard time to monetize in practice). I heartily applaud anyone trying to monetize FLOSS based on decent principles and values, rather than just bottom-line, willingly taking the hard road of founding a bootstrapped, sustainable business.
marcosdumay 6y ago
To add to the other answers, the acronym used to be FOSS. People changed it to FLOSS exactly because unethical corporations kept exploiting the confusion between "libre" and gratis on the English language to misinform people. (Notably Microsoft had the gals to do it in its English PR and translate all over the world, including literal translations to Latin languages where both words are completely different.)

ohthehugemanate 6y ago

It's to disambiguate the english uses of the word "free." It's free as in freedom, not free as in beer. Libre (in French, as it is used in the acronym) only means the former.

vorticalbox 6y ago
That makes more sense thanks.
darkwater 6y ago
In Spanish as well, because the other meaning of the English "free" (as in free beer) is translated as "gratis", which comes straight from Latin.
- agustif 6y ago
  It seems the oxford dictionary also has an entry for -gratis- in the english language (middle-age from the same latin origin, as -late middle english- Interesting!
- ModernMech 6y ago
  Given that, I think we should change the acronym to GLOSS. edit: could mean Gratis and/or Libre Open Source Software
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    That would enshrine the exact misunderstanding that this thread is trying to correct. Free software is not necessarily gratis.
    - ModernMech 6y ago
      Then why not call it LOSS? The F has to mean something, and if it doesn't mean libre it either means gratis or it's redundant and confusing. GLOSS could be a different thing, to differentiate it from PLOSS (paid libre open source software).
      - Shared404 6y ago
        The F is to keep the FSF happy. I do like the idea of distinction between GLOSS and PLOSS, but we've got enough acronym soup at this point that I'd say just stick with FLOSS. Also, many people who only speak English don't know the word Libre.
      - mamon 6y ago
        > Then why not call it LOSS? Because then people would think they are losing something by using it? /s
      - necovek 6y ago
        Free Software was coined by (probably) RMS to highlight how users of such software are getting a number of _freedoms_: namely those to use, modify and share that software onwards (with or without their modifications). It is in opposition to "restricted" software where you are restricted in all of those. (Copyleft software restrict others from adding more restrictions, which is defensible but some BSD proponents disagree) Libre is, as many have said, just the Latin word for Free. You'd still have to explain what it means in this context. "Open Source" has similar problems: many think that it's enough for source code to be available for inspection for software to be called "Open Source", but it is just a another attempt to market a philosophy under a particular name. These constructs are created to have a special meaning to promote an ideology, and are thus usually capitalized in English. This is nothing uncommon, and attempting to use these—now accepted—phrases to mean something else is bound to cause confusion. So, just like you learn what a "programming language" or "HyperText Transport Protocol" is (yes, one transfers a lot more than just "HyperText" over it), if you are in IT, one should learn what "Free Software" and "Open Source" mean.
  - muskox2 6y ago
    Well, not all libre software is gratis.
teekert 6y ago
Indeed, in Dutch we have "Vrij" (Libre, free as in freedom) and "Gratis" (a term I sometimes see used on international fora as well, meaning free, as in beer). Since English does not have this distinction Libre was used. I never ever associated it with Liberal.
- rob74 6y ago
  In German too, "frei" and "gratis/kostenlos". However, paradoxically "free beer" is actually "Freibier", not "Gratis-Bier"...
  - necovek 6y ago
    With beer it's a bit special, because beers you didn't pay for have some freedom: they can decide to leave your stomach even against your will back the way they came :D But if you paid for it, they ain't allowed to, of course.

cyphar 6y ago

The issue is that the word "free" in English has two meanings, while other languages have two separate words for each meaning (gratis = free of charge, libre = free as in freedom). The reason why L means Libre is to emphasise that the "free" in "free software" refers to the libre meaning of the word "free", not necessarily the gratis meaning. This is also what the phrase "free as in speech, not as in beer" attempts to disambiguate.

hanche 6y ago
And then, just to complicate matters, there is free beer – “Free as in free speech”. http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe http://freebeer.org/blog/recipe

rapnie 6y ago

It refers to the civil liberties kind of Free. You have the term "free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. The Libre makes it clear that the first kind of Free is referred to here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software Update: The distinction is important. It also entails that people should be able to earn a living by providing FLOSS software. Many people that don't know much about FLOSS think of it as the "Free beer" variant (something promoted by much of big tech, which is seemingly free). There can be good business models attached to FLOSS (though devs have a very hard time to monetize in practice). I heartily applaud anyone trying to monetize FLOSS based on decent principles and values, rather than just bottom-line, willingly taking the hard road of founding a bootstrapped, sustainable business.

marcosdumay 6y ago

To add to the other answers, the acronym used to be FOSS. People changed it to FLOSS exactly because unethical corporations kept exploiting the confusion between "libre" and gratis on the English language to misinform people. (Notably Microsoft had the gals to do it in its English PR and translate all over the world, including literal translations to Latin languages where both words are completely different.)