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Self-compassion is not self-indulgence
- kashyapc 6y ago(Prior art from 2000+ years ago.) The first 29 letters (out of 124) that Seneca wrote, to his friend Lucilius, end with a quotation—the "daily dole" referenced below—from writings that have impressed Seneca. He ends his letter 6 this way: <quote> Meanwhile, as I owe you the daily dole, I will tell you what pleased me today in the writings of Hecaton: "Do you ask what progress I have made? I have begun to be a friend to myself." Valuable progress indeed: he will never be alone. Believe me, such a person will be a friend to everyone. Farewell. </quote>
- throw_this_one 6y agoAnd the key is that being a good friend is being compassionate, loving, but also honest.
- azundo 6y agoI can also recommend https://www.tarabrach.com/radical-compassion/ https://www.tarabrach.com/radical-compassion/ as a great introduction to the idea of self compassion and some very practical ways to practice it.
- circlefavshape 6y agoErm ... what's wrong with self-indulgence?
- aimor 6y agoThe excessiveness of it.
- Jtsummers 6y agoNot necessarily anything until it gets to an extreme, but it's not self-compassion and that's the point of the article (or a chunk of it, most of the article is about what self-compassion actually is but doesn't spend too much time contrasting it with other things). Many people conflate the two concepts and self-indulgence (being generally egocentric) is often considered "bad". If the two ideas get mixed together then this leads to a rejection of self-compassion as well.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- stevenhuang 6y agoWe wouldn't want to end up like the Aeldaris now would we? https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Aeldari https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Aeldari
- da_big_ghey 6y agoThere is no wrong in a simple indulginces. I have completed big project in recent week past and went for purchase my self ice-cream-cone. This indulgence, not necesity. There is however existing today in West large cultures of "poor me"/of pitying self. One is never failing, simply try ones best. The pendulem has swung to far in the oposite direction from fifty years in past time.
- tittenfick 6y agoThey're vapid, meaningless. They don't give you any fulfillment, they only act as a distraction from your problems.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago>For instance, in one study, my colleagues Patricia Chen, Jamil Zaki and I looked into the coping strategies used by people who were disappointed and upset following the outcome of the 2016 US presidential election. Those who viewed self-compassion positively were more likely than others to draw upon self-compassion in a beneficial way to help them get through the difficult times – for instance, they reported using more active strategies to manage their emotions, such as seeking support from others, and relied less upon unhelpful strategies, such as distraction or self-blame. This not only helped them feel better, it worked better too – our participants who practised more self-compassion reported having more intentions to improve themselves and the situation, such as by committing to become more politically active. But that's the entire issue behind whether something is "self-compassion" or whether it is "self-indulgence". How do we know what's beneficial and what's not? Sometimes being hard on oneself is good. Sometimes being soft on oneself is bad. We can't know in advance the outcomes of our actions, so how do we choose between the two? >Remember that, time and time again, researchers find that self-compassion not only helps us feel better but has positive practical consequences too. But again, this generic statement isn't enough for people. This doesn't help people determine where the line is between self-compassion and self-indulgence. If I quit my job and draw bubble baths all day, then yeah, I'll feel better, but my material status will decline precipitously, and if I have dependents, the benefit for me turns into a loss for them. Feel like this article could have been written by GPT-3, looks legit but totally lacks substance.
- wombatmobile 6y ago"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition." -- Steve Jobs
- amelius 6y agoAnd go thermonuclear if you have to.
- _carbyau_ 6y agoClearly some peoples inner voices are different from others.
- jfengel 6y agoSteve Jobs followed his heart on the best way to treat his cancer. He is dead. He should have listened to the noise of the opinions of doctors. I advise against the advice of famous people. Jobs followed his heart and got rich. Ten thousand other people in Silicon Valley followed theirs and went broke. You hear from him and you don't hear from them. Tell your heart and your intuition about survivorship bias and see how they feel about it.
- wombatmobile 6y ago> Steve Jobs followed his heart on the best way to treat his cancer. He is dead. Everybody dies. It's part of life. Not everybody lives while they get the chance. Jobs lived his life in a way that ensure people like us will still be talking about him for a long time to come.
- hn_asker 6y agoFeels like we live in a society where self-compassion is not tolerated. How can we be kind to ourselves if there are mechanisms in society that keep us distracted from ourselves?
- michael1999 6y agoYou can be normal, or you can live well.
- hn_asker 6y agoReminds me of a documentary called "Medicating Normal". Try being self-compassionate when you have unholy side effects of benzos, anti-depressants, and anti-psychotics prescribed to you. Normal by "western" standards is unhealthy. We need a renaissance of self-compassion but it has to be protected from the systems that be.
- da_big_ghey 6y agoI am recognise that here we have no problem for to simpley solve. But, however, are you haveing idea on how protected from the systems that be means and ought to be enactment? We have jobs if are demanding normal; how ought one to holding down job without normal?
- hn_asker 6y agoJobs are just one way of living. I feel like there are more efficient ways to implement prosperity. Or have less suffering keeping the level of prosperity the same. What is a job? Is it really beneficial? This reminds me of David Graeber's Bullshit Jobs lecture. Too many people are suffering because of their trust in systemic inefficiency.
- da_big_ghey 6y agowell we are having to support the self in some how. i am not sure if there are diferent way. only other option appear to be take some money from a person and give to other person with state force. this behavior is not ethical
- finnthehuman 6y agoThis article is unactionable fluff. I shouldn't be too hard on myself? gee thanks, a fortune cookie can tell me that. And it's a shorter read too. Why does the obvious question go unacknowledged by this article? The question is roughly "How does someone calibrate how they reflect on their actions and effectively guide themselves through life?" People are not tough on themselves for no reason, it's a (possibly misguided) attempt to push themselves towards their goals. If you tell them to be self-compassionate without answering that you're setting them up to resist your advice. What deduction am I to make other than: the article doesn't address the question because it doesn't have an answer. NB: I have an answer that works for me; I'm talking about how good this piece of persuasive writing is at providing one for people that don't. But thanks for the advice.
- Jtsummers 6y agoThe article includes a definition of self-compassion, comparison/contrasts with other things people do (self-beratement and self-indulgence), links to studies on the topic, as well as resources on how to practice/develop it. How is that "unactionable fluff"? The article itself is not a tutorial, but it gives you access to deeper materials if you're interested. Do you also expect chapter 1 for a text or the abstract for a paper to explain everything or to establish the motivation and definitions for what follows?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- alexslobodnik 6y agoEach article has its own audience. Maybe this article isn't for you, that's cool. Others may find it helpful. Even if you know something, it is helpful to be reminded of it from time to time.
- bitshiftfaced 6y agoThe author outlines Neff's work, but you might find a more concrete gameplan in Neff's book. [1] It's based on an eight-week program. 1. https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-mindful-self-compassion-workbook-a-proven-way-to-accept-yourself-build-inner-strength-and-thrive_kristin-neff_christopher-germer/18646110/#edition=19854192&idiq=28981848 https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-mindful-self-compassion-wo...
- motohagiography 6y agoI recognize that pattern of self-beratement, and it becomes reflexive like a tic or scratching an itch, but then it happens so much that eventually it can become like a sore, with all the consequences. It can also mean the cruelty you have for yourself sets a threshold where the accidental cruelty you have towards others doesn't even register because it's not nearly as bad as what you do to yourself. If you can recognize that the self-berating pattern can have collateral damage on people it would break your heart to be cruel to, it can make exercising compassion a priority. One of my favourite discussions of this was in the animated series Midnight Gospel, where the fellow being interviewed talked about the Buddhist perspective on what was essentially people's lack of self-compassion as recognizing that, "you're grinding in Minecraft." Man, Buddhists are assholes. But well worth listening to.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y agoYou make an interesting point. I suspect the post is downvoted only because of the second-to-last sentence.
- DistressedDrone 6y agoAs a Buddhist it seems like a good natured joke, any form of spiritually can be confronting. And if it wasn't meant to be humorous, I don't think it would be very Buddhist of me to take it personally!
- motohagiography 6y agoThank you, this was the "joke." :)
- murph-almighty 6y agoI'm halfway through This Difficult Thing of Being Human, which advocates for self compassion and tries to create a framework for the reader to practice it. Admittedly I'm not great at remembering to break the mental "downward spiral", but it's pretty good at establishing why this isn't just self-coddling, so I'd suggest it.
- OnACoffeeBreak 6y agoHere's a paper that introduced me to self-compassion. It explains what self-compassion is and how it is different from self-esteem: https://academic.udayton.edu/jackbauer/PGSG/Neff%2003%20self-comp%20alt%20health%20copy.pdf https://academic.udayton.edu/jackbauer/PGSG/Neff%2003%20self...
- AzzieElbab 6y agoThis thing used to be called self pity.
- eyelidlessness 6y agoI’ve done more than a lot of self reflection on how I treat myself differently from anyone else. And in a lot of ways it’s given me permission to give myself grace I wouldn’t have in the past. I very much agree with the author on how important it is, and I hope anyone reading benefits from that message, and carries it with them to share it with the people they care about who may also be too hard on themselves. I also hope this next part won’t undermine all of that. In all of my reflection on the subject, the thing that always comes back to my focus is that a core part of how I forgive or excuse others’ faults and mistakes is that I have limited insight into their whole picture. If someone is failing me or themselves or others, I can imagine countless complicating factors that might be making it harder for them to do better, even if it’s not out in the open. When I’m failing myself or others, I don’t have total insight into the contributing factors but I have a much fuller view. I have the ability to scrutinize every single thing that happens in my waking hours that didn’t escape my attention, and to revisit much of what did. And so I have much more detail to scrutinize. Gratefully I’ve learned a lot in the process about how to scrutinize myself more kindly (and that’s helped when I choose or need to scrutinize others too). But it’s unavoidable to me that I will hold myself to a higher standard than anyone else, because I have far fewer unknowns to mitigate my own judgment.