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I remember when Reddit was considered a bastion of free speech. It's amazing how the culture's changed so quickly. But it does appear like this particular incid

I remember when Reddit was considered a bastion of free speech. It's amazing how the culture's changed so quickly. But it does appear like this particular incident is a mistake made by automated moderation. https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/mbqgx2/a_clarification_on_actioning_and_employee_names/?utm_source=share https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/mbqgx2/a_clarif...

silicon2401 6y ago
It was only founded in 2005 and hasn't been a bastion of free speech since at least 2016 or 2017, in my opinion. So while I wouldn't say reddit's culture has changed that quickly, American culture certainly has as it's gravitated towards mainstream media shutting down non-PC topics and content
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  As recently as 2018, the company was taking a pretty strong stance (https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-44779237 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-44779237), deliberately avoiding a hate speech ban and saying things like "we are not the thought police".
  - goalieca 6y ago
    I would argue they say that in public but massive content manipulation through moderation is not even a secret.
    - silicon2401 6y ago
      I agree and would go further to say that's obvious. Why would a company not say whatever's safest and most beneficial to their image?
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    Let's say the company was acting like the thought police. Do you think they would go and publicly announce that "we are the thought police"? PR statements have as much value to me as a pigeon's fart. As a regular user I don't have any visibility into the leadership, but it's been obvious for years that at least at the level of users and moderators, there has been a hard shift away from free speech like there was in the earlier days. I only joined reddit in 2011/2012, but even then there was still a strong feeling of free speech, which includes the freedom to heinous and despicable (but legal) speech. Maybe the leadership tried protecting free speech in 2018, but users and moderators had long since drifted away from promoting free speech by that point.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      > Let's say the company was acting like the thought police. Do you think they would go and publicly announce that "we are the thought police"? I do. They wouldn't say it in exactly that way, but they would (and did: https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951 https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951) post an explanation of which thoughts are so hateful they need to be policed.
twirlock 6y ago
It's a microcosm for free speech in general and what happens to it when you let spooks put their foot in the door.
nonameiguess 6y ago
Reddit has never been a bastion of anything. One sub is radically different from another. Maybe you mean they allowed the subs to do whatever they wanted in their own sub as long as it wasn't illegal, but that seemingly hasn't been the case for a while.
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y ago
  They pretty much do allow subs to do whatever they want as long as it isn't illegal and also as long as it doesn't draw negative media attention to reddit. They will usually crack down on the latter. They will sometimes ban illegal activity subs unprovoked but really it's fairly rare right up until they draw outside attention.
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    > They pretty much do allow subs to do whatever they want Haven't been on Reddit in a few years, eh?
- zucker42 6y ago
  Yes, that's what I mean. They allowed the subs to self-manage. They also explicitly and publicly expressed support for open discourse and admin non-interference.
makomk 6y ago
The subreddit mod in question seems to have some convincing arguments against the "automated moderation" spin: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/mbytxw/daily_megathread_24032021/gs0worp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/mbytxw/daily_me...
shakezula 6y ago
I can't figure out where this association ever came about. I literally only ever hear the phrase "bastion of free speech" when it's in relation to Reddit and not any other social media platform. Why is Reddit always the go-to for free speech? It honestly feels almost like an astroturfed term at this point.
- zucker42 6y ago
  They explicitly defended and espoused free speech/open discourse in the early days. It was very much part of the ethos. One of their founders (Aaron Schwartz) was a famous activist in areas intersecting with free speech. They were known for allowing edgy content on their platform, even if they didn't approve of it, like exotic but legal porn and stuff like FiftyFifty. There was really huge pushback from the community in the mid 2010s to instances of censorship. In 2012 their CEO specifically said "we stand for free speech". https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/15/8964995/reddit-free-speech-history https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/15/8964995/reddit-free-speec... Reddit also used to be open source, but they moved on from that, too.

silicon2401 6y ago

It was only founded in 2005 and hasn't been a bastion of free speech since at least 2016 or 2017, in my opinion. So while I wouldn't say reddit's culture has changed that quickly, American culture certainly has as it's gravitated towards mainstream media shutting down non-PC topics and content

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
As recently as 2018, the company was taking a pretty strong stance (https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-44779237 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-44779237), deliberately avoiding a hate speech ban and saying things like "we are not the thought police".
- goalieca 6y ago
  I would argue they say that in public but massive content manipulation through moderation is not even a secret.
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    I agree and would go further to say that's obvious. Why would a company not say whatever's safest and most beneficial to their image?
- silicon2401 6y ago
  Let's say the company was acting like the thought police. Do you think they would go and publicly announce that "we are the thought police"? PR statements have as much value to me as a pigeon's fart. As a regular user I don't have any visibility into the leadership, but it's been obvious for years that at least at the level of users and moderators, there has been a hard shift away from free speech like there was in the earlier days. I only joined reddit in 2011/2012, but even then there was still a strong feeling of free speech, which includes the freedom to heinous and despicable (but legal) speech. Maybe the leadership tried protecting free speech in 2018, but users and moderators had long since drifted away from promoting free speech by that point.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    > Let's say the company was acting like the thought police. Do you think they would go and publicly announce that "we are the thought police"? I do. They wouldn't say it in exactly that way, but they would (and did: https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951 https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360045715951) post an explanation of which thoughts are so hateful they need to be policed.

twirlock 6y ago

It's a microcosm for free speech in general and what happens to it when you let spooks put their foot in the door.

nonameiguess 6y ago

Reddit has never been a bastion of anything. One sub is radically different from another. Maybe you mean they allowed the subs to do whatever they wanted in their own sub as long as it wasn't illegal, but that seemingly hasn't been the case for a while.

8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y ago
They pretty much do allow subs to do whatever they want as long as it isn't illegal and also as long as it doesn't draw negative media attention to reddit. They will usually crack down on the latter. They will sometimes ban illegal activity subs unprovoked but really it's fairly rare right up until they draw outside attention.
- jaywalk 6y ago
  > They pretty much do allow subs to do whatever they want Haven't been on Reddit in a few years, eh?
zucker42 6y ago
Yes, that's what I mean. They allowed the subs to self-manage. They also explicitly and publicly expressed support for open discourse and admin non-interference.

makomk 6y ago

The subreddit mod in question seems to have some convincing arguments against the "automated moderation" spin: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/mbytxw/daily_megathread_24032021/gs0worp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/mbytxw/daily_me...

shakezula 6y ago

I can't figure out where this association ever came about. I literally only ever hear the phrase "bastion of free speech" when it's in relation to Reddit and not any other social media platform. Why is Reddit always the go-to for free speech? It honestly feels almost like an astroturfed term at this point.

zucker42 6y ago
They explicitly defended and espoused free speech/open discourse in the early days. It was very much part of the ethos. One of their founders (Aaron Schwartz) was a famous activist in areas intersecting with free speech. They were known for allowing edgy content on their platform, even if they didn't approve of it, like exotic but legal porn and stuff like FiftyFifty. There was really huge pushback from the community in the mid 2010s to instances of censorship. In 2012 their CEO specifically said "we stand for free speech". https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/15/8964995/reddit-free-speech-history https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/15/8964995/reddit-free-speec... Reddit also used to be open source, but they moved on from that, too.