8 ms·

The risk of a confrontation escalating makes dealing with such things myself a very unattractive option, especially if it's a stranger. I've had a simple, polit

by wl 6y ago

The risk of a confrontation escalating makes dealing with such things myself a very unattractive option, especially if it's a stranger. I've had a simple, polite request to turn down the thumping music at 1 AM end with me blocking punches, retreating to my unit, and calling the cops. Better to leave it to people who do such things professionally.

patcon 6y ago
> Better to leave it to people who do such things professionally. I empathize, esp if you're of the generation (like me) where we've grown accustom to distance in time and space via async messaging. Having said that, I would respectfully push back: negotiating everyday conflicts of life with others (who are most often strangers) is NOT something we should allow to be overly professionalized. Yes, it's true that some extroverts find this easier, and that's a privilege we don't all have. But we can't pass this to landlords and tenant associations and governments to do, while we stay at a fully-intermediated distance. We need to learn and grow in how we relate to one another, ESPECIALLY now that the distance of the internet is working against us and causing our social muscles to atrophe. Anyhow, I'm not trying to be argumentative -- I almost feel like I'm pleading here. It will be really bad if we "specialize" in this way. Losing our ability to navigate everyday conflicts with one another, and deferring it to higher powers, that's the worst sort of "vendor lock-in" I could ever imagine for a society. Fwiw, I am a collectivist who values institutions, so I don't share this from a hyper-individualist perspective that distrusts these actors <3
- failwhaleshark 6y ago
  I agree. I think it's good to ask a neighbor if they seem the type to be amenable to it, otherwise better ask them if they've seen a cat wandering around. I had a neighbor who was an out-of-work hot-head who shouted at everyone and had his own posse of low-lifes. The guy BBQed right next to the wooden fence (in violation of fire codes) using absurd amounts of lighter fluid and charcoal that seeped into my unit directly above. I tried asking them to move it but they just ignored me. I tried a second time and then him and his posse surrounded me, mean mugged me, and tried to start a fight. I asked the property management to do something, they tried, and they took out their bad experiences on me passive-aggressively. I finally got out of there because it was a horrible situation.
  - patcon 6y ago
    Ah shit, that sounds like a fuckin rotten experience. Sorry you had to go through it. i always wonder, when I have fantastically social failures like that: how could i tune the knobs to make this go better with this specific type of person, who sees me in this way... like if I did this 10 more times with 10 more hot-heads, I wonder what I'd learn about what he responds better to. I'm sure there are parts of who I am that I can't talk around, but still. And not that I have the nerve to keep putting myself in that situation...! Anyhow, makes me curious from a distance, but to be clear, I'm not judging that there's anything else you could've done :)
    - failwhaleshark 6y ago
      The only way I think would've been to be another village tough or a low-life posse supplicant. The dude was out-of-work, drinking, smoking, and not doing anything and taking out his angsty frustrations in life on everyone else, including his kid, his wife, the mailman, the apt manager, and anyone else that walked by who wasn't a part of their gang.
sneak 6y ago
If you wouldn't come back with a gun yourself to resolve the issue, it's a dick move to call someone else (a cop) to come over with a gun. If you're making phone calls for armed response because someone is playing music, the problem might be with you.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- CDSlice 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure they called the cops on their neighbor because they were getting assaulted ("having to block punches"), not because of the music.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  It depends on the context. If someone lives in multi unit housing and repeatedly blasts music or does it at odd hours in the middle of the night, I would assume the probability of them being anti social and not conforming to expected behavior to be very high, such that I might feel more comfortable with police dealing with them. If it’s a once in a while thing where they’re celebrating or whatnot and it sounds like they’re unintentionally disturbing others, then it’s probably worth talking to them.
- chao- 6y ago
  Saying "be prepared to pull a gun, or don't ask your neighbor for anything" seems like a false dichotomy. Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way? Instead agree to follow a code, and standards, and to not adjudicate transgressions of those codes with individual-on-individual violence?
  - sneak 6y ago
    I didn't say anything about pulling a gun, just that if you aren't willing to arm yourself and re-engage, it is a dick move to call someone else armed to come over and do it for you. It has nothing to do with violence. The correct move is obviously to not re-engage, personally or by proxy. > Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way? Quite the opposite. Laws are enforced exclusively via threat of violence, and the only thing that distinguishes the government from any other leadership organization is a claim to legitimate use of violence.
chao- 6y ago
That's why you introduce yourself to all of your neighbors to your unit when you move in. I tend to bring them some food or something when I do it. That way they're not a "stranger" and their first context of your face isn't you complaining at 1am. You should consider it next time you move somewhere.

by wl 6y ago

patcon 6y ago

> Better to leave it to people who do such things professionally. I empathize, esp if you're of the generation (like me) where we've grown accustom to distance in time and space via async messaging. Having said that, I would respectfully push back: negotiating everyday conflicts of life with others (who are most often strangers) is NOT something we should allow to be overly professionalized. Yes, it's true that some extroverts find this easier, and that's a privilege we don't all have. But we can't pass this to landlords and tenant associations and governments to do, while we stay at a fully-intermediated distance. We need to learn and grow in how we relate to one another, ESPECIALLY now that the distance of the internet is working against us and causing our social muscles to atrophe. Anyhow, I'm not trying to be argumentative -- I almost feel like I'm pleading here. It will be really bad if we "specialize" in this way. Losing our ability to navigate everyday conflicts with one another, and deferring it to higher powers, that's the worst sort of "vendor lock-in" I could ever imagine for a society. Fwiw, I am a collectivist who values institutions, so I don't share this from a hyper-individualist perspective that distrusts these actors <3

failwhaleshark 6y ago
I agree. I think it's good to ask a neighbor if they seem the type to be amenable to it, otherwise better ask them if they've seen a cat wandering around. I had a neighbor who was an out-of-work hot-head who shouted at everyone and had his own posse of low-lifes. The guy BBQed right next to the wooden fence (in violation of fire codes) using absurd amounts of lighter fluid and charcoal that seeped into my unit directly above. I tried asking them to move it but they just ignored me. I tried a second time and then him and his posse surrounded me, mean mugged me, and tried to start a fight. I asked the property management to do something, they tried, and they took out their bad experiences on me passive-aggressively. I finally got out of there because it was a horrible situation.
- patcon 6y ago
  Ah shit, that sounds like a fuckin rotten experience. Sorry you had to go through it. i always wonder, when I have fantastically social failures like that: how could i tune the knobs to make this go better with this specific type of person, who sees me in this way... like if I did this 10 more times with 10 more hot-heads, I wonder what I'd learn about what he responds better to. I'm sure there are parts of who I am that I can't talk around, but still. And not that I have the nerve to keep putting myself in that situation...! Anyhow, makes me curious from a distance, but to be clear, I'm not judging that there's anything else you could've done :)
  - failwhaleshark 6y ago
    The only way I think would've been to be another village tough or a low-life posse supplicant. The dude was out-of-work, drinking, smoking, and not doing anything and taking out his angsty frustrations in life on everyone else, including his kid, his wife, the mailman, the apt manager, and anyone else that walked by who wasn't a part of their gang.

sneak 6y ago

If you wouldn't come back with a gun yourself to resolve the issue, it's a dick move to call someone else (a cop) to come over with a gun. If you're making phone calls for armed response because someone is playing music, the problem might be with you.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
CDSlice 6y ago
I'm pretty sure they called the cops on their neighbor because they were getting assaulted ("having to block punches"), not because of the music.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
It depends on the context. If someone lives in multi unit housing and repeatedly blasts music or does it at odd hours in the middle of the night, I would assume the probability of them being anti social and not conforming to expected behavior to be very high, such that I might feel more comfortable with police dealing with them. If it’s a once in a while thing where they’re celebrating or whatnot and it sounds like they’re unintentionally disturbing others, then it’s probably worth talking to them.
chao- 6y ago
Saying "be prepared to pull a gun, or don't ask your neighbor for anything" seems like a false dichotomy. Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way? Instead agree to follow a code, and standards, and to not adjudicate transgressions of those codes with individual-on-individual violence?
- sneak 6y ago
  I didn't say anything about pulling a gun, just that if you aren't willing to arm yourself and re-engage, it is a dick move to call someone else armed to come over and do it for you. It has nothing to do with violence. The correct move is obviously to not re-engage, personally or by proxy. > Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way? Quite the opposite. Laws are enforced exclusively via threat of violence, and the only thing that distinguishes the government from any other leadership organization is a claim to legitimate use of violence.

chao- 6y ago

That's why you introduce yourself to all of your neighbors to your unit when you move in. I tend to bring them some food or something when I do it. That way they're not a "stranger" and their first context of your face isn't you complaining at 1am. You should consider it next time you move somewhere.