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Because humans are social animals, and many of us enjoy interacting with IRL coworkers. It also allows much creativity and has various other benefits, both with

Because humans are social animals, and many of us enjoy interacting with IRL coworkers. It also allows much creativity and has various other benefits, both with your work - and with your mental well being.

kristiandupont 6y ago
As someone who was suffering from serious cabin fever last April, I can now say that I would find it quite annoying to be asked to go to an office full time again. The option to go as I please (which would probably average one or two days a week) would be excellent, though!
- CobsterLock 6y ago
  we, small enterprise software company, have opened the office under that model. What is happening is that some people have refused to return, myself included, some are doing the official 2 days a week, and others are going back full time. The office actually opened up last year, right after the first NYC fizzled out. There have been a few week long shutdowns of the entire office as some are found to have COVID-19. My general thoughts are that there are a few people that got strong armed into returning, but most that are back in the office are happy to be there.
solosoyokaze 6y ago
All the same can be said for wfh. I can socialize with people I want to socialize with, not those I have to socialize with. I have freedom, no commute, no open office, no manager dropping in on me... I have extensive experience managing and working remote and non-remote and I've never seen any benefit to non-remote work. Productivity and creativity are higher with wfh and stress and burnout are way lower.
ekianjo 6y ago
Thats what you want to believe. In reality after 6 months plus of full remote work most people dont want to step in the office again at least nowhere near full time. We see this in every 1:1 conversation.
- oblio 6y ago
  For software developers...
supernovae 6y ago
I guess I've learned since the pandemic and finding a new job during pandemic that being at the office wasn't as fulfilling as I once thought it was and that those social interactions were rather fake/short lived and the bursts of creativity I did enjoy were destroyed by upper management deciding everything we did would be thrown out for something new. What I want is not another day sitting in a god forsaken office after sitting in crappy traffic but rather the ability to go have a coffee, grab some lunch or just hang out and "Talk shop" with people regardless of being direct co-workers, friends, peers and whatnot. Those are the kinds of people who called me, messaged me and asked me how I was doing. THe only other former co-workers who keep up with me are ones who quit and found new jobs too - it's like since we're not still suffering we're no longer friends and all too often we see that as fulfilling social interactions without question. I guess with hindsight I actually see the "office" as anti-social - it creates bad/poor behaviors, people find solace in common suffering and 9 times out of 10 all of my co-workers were actually dicks who only showed up to work to avoid their unhealthy home life and again, with hindsight, I see they tried making me ancillary to their unhealth work life too. hard to explain it in a small text box, but I guess i just see the office environment as extremely fake, demoralizing and depressing - even though i've had some great memories through it - i'd rather not be captive to sitting in a cubicle chair and actually develop much more rewarding, enriching and valuable experiences that translate to more productivity and creativity in the end. Often times i don't even get to choose my co-workers and if I did, those teams are often short lived and i think that corporate disruption to things that matter on a human to human level is something we're refusing to challenge/change because "it is the way it is". I get thrown on a new team, and its not new friends, it's now colleagues to suffer with and build empty relationships.
- npsimons 6y ago
  I second your whole post. To try and empathize with a lot of the people bemoaning WFH, I believe they are just suffering from quarantines in general. I truly believe many of them would do fine if they could WFH 100%, but be able to go out with friends on weeknights and weekends. You are absolutely right that the office is a pisspoor substitute for real comraderie, and I wish people would stop conflating the two.
whateveracct 6y ago
Offices make me spend 4+ extra hours a day on work with 0 benefit. That's 20 hours/week I could be spending with my wife & cats, caring for my home, developing skills and software that makes me money instead of some corporation. That's an entire mini-lifetime I'd be giving my employer. And I don't think I ever will have to - I can force myself to be remote the rest of my working life. And that mini-lifetime is mine..and that's priceless. I've had 1 or 2 coworkers out of hundreds I became any level of "friends" with, and the closest of whom I didn't even work directly with. Actually, one of the coworkers I'm friends with, I met in a remote team with us living across the country from each other.
- brianwawok 6y ago
  I am glad that is your experience.There is no single answer for all people. I think you as an employee are making a wise choice. If you can get paid a full salary for 20 hours of work, it is in your best interest to keep that alive! As a business owner, I am not sure you would hire on the same axis. I would personally not hire someone that can only work for 20 hours a week, there is too much to do.
  - whateveracct 6y ago
    I've worked at many remote companies by now. None have asked how many hours they're getting out of me. And they all got more or less the amount of time mentioned. And they were all plenty happy with my output! Why would they care if the output was the result of fewer hours? If they wanted to pay me by the hour, they could have negotiated that. At-will salaried employment cuts both ways :) and in this case, everyone is happy. Anyone wanting more hours out of me is just trying to exploit my labor. I'm already getting paid fair value for what I'm producing.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    >As a business owner, I am not sure you would hire on the same axis If you are hiring salaried individuals on the basis on how many hours they put in a week, then you might be focusing on the wrong metrics. There were plenty of people in tech doing 20 hours of work a week, and spending the remaining 20 hours on hacker news. I bemoan WFH, but not because of work output.
ryandrake 6y ago
I think people who "enjoy interacting with IRL coworkers" should absolutely be allowed to return to their offices, but don't force people who work better from home or have four hour commutes (like me) to come back too. Some people have been really struggling with WFH and just can't make it work well for them, and they understandably want to get back to the office. That's great, and they should do it! But why not also let people who have been thriving under WFH continue to do it?
caddemon 6y ago
I'd probably prefer full-time WFH over full-time office 9-5, but I agree there is definitely a benefit to spending 1-2 days per week in the office. I'm hoping some more jobs with that sort of format will come out of this too.

kristiandupont 6y ago

As someone who was suffering from serious cabin fever last April, I can now say that I would find it quite annoying to be asked to go to an office full time again. The option to go as I please (which would probably average one or two days a week) would be excellent, though!

CobsterLock 6y ago
we, small enterprise software company, have opened the office under that model. What is happening is that some people have refused to return, myself included, some are doing the official 2 days a week, and others are going back full time. The office actually opened up last year, right after the first NYC fizzled out. There have been a few week long shutdowns of the entire office as some are found to have COVID-19. My general thoughts are that there are a few people that got strong armed into returning, but most that are back in the office are happy to be there.

solosoyokaze 6y ago

All the same can be said for wfh. I can socialize with people I want to socialize with, not those I have to socialize with. I have freedom, no commute, no open office, no manager dropping in on me... I have extensive experience managing and working remote and non-remote and I've never seen any benefit to non-remote work. Productivity and creativity are higher with wfh and stress and burnout are way lower.

ekianjo 6y ago

Thats what you want to believe. In reality after 6 months plus of full remote work most people dont want to step in the office again at least nowhere near full time. We see this in every 1:1 conversation.

oblio 6y ago
For software developers...

supernovae 6y ago

I guess I've learned since the pandemic and finding a new job during pandemic that being at the office wasn't as fulfilling as I once thought it was and that those social interactions were rather fake/short lived and the bursts of creativity I did enjoy were destroyed by upper management deciding everything we did would be thrown out for something new. What I want is not another day sitting in a god forsaken office after sitting in crappy traffic but rather the ability to go have a coffee, grab some lunch or just hang out and "Talk shop" with people regardless of being direct co-workers, friends, peers and whatnot. Those are the kinds of people who called me, messaged me and asked me how I was doing. THe only other former co-workers who keep up with me are ones who quit and found new jobs too - it's like since we're not still suffering we're no longer friends and all too often we see that as fulfilling social interactions without question. I guess with hindsight I actually see the "office" as anti-social - it creates bad/poor behaviors, people find solace in common suffering and 9 times out of 10 all of my co-workers were actually dicks who only showed up to work to avoid their unhealthy home life and again, with hindsight, I see they tried making me ancillary to their unhealth work life too. hard to explain it in a small text box, but I guess i just see the office environment as extremely fake, demoralizing and depressing - even though i've had some great memories through it - i'd rather not be captive to sitting in a cubicle chair and actually develop much more rewarding, enriching and valuable experiences that translate to more productivity and creativity in the end. Often times i don't even get to choose my co-workers and if I did, those teams are often short lived and i think that corporate disruption to things that matter on a human to human level is something we're refusing to challenge/change because "it is the way it is". I get thrown on a new team, and its not new friends, it's now colleagues to suffer with and build empty relationships.

npsimons 6y ago
I second your whole post. To try and empathize with a lot of the people bemoaning WFH, I believe they are just suffering from quarantines in general. I truly believe many of them would do fine if they could WFH 100%, but be able to go out with friends on weeknights and weekends. You are absolutely right that the office is a pisspoor substitute for real comraderie, and I wish people would stop conflating the two.

whateveracct 6y ago

Offices make me spend 4+ extra hours a day on work with 0 benefit. That's 20 hours/week I could be spending with my wife & cats, caring for my home, developing skills and software that makes me money instead of some corporation. That's an entire mini-lifetime I'd be giving my employer. And I don't think I ever will have to - I can force myself to be remote the rest of my working life. And that mini-lifetime is mine..and that's priceless. I've had 1 or 2 coworkers out of hundreds I became any level of "friends" with, and the closest of whom I didn't even work directly with. Actually, one of the coworkers I'm friends with, I met in a remote team with us living across the country from each other.

brianwawok 6y ago
I am glad that is your experience.There is no single answer for all people. I think you as an employee are making a wise choice. If you can get paid a full salary for 20 hours of work, it is in your best interest to keep that alive! As a business owner, I am not sure you would hire on the same axis. I would personally not hire someone that can only work for 20 hours a week, there is too much to do.
- whateveracct 6y ago
  I've worked at many remote companies by now. None have asked how many hours they're getting out of me. And they all got more or less the amount of time mentioned. And they were all plenty happy with my output! Why would they care if the output was the result of fewer hours? If they wanted to pay me by the hour, they could have negotiated that. At-will salaried employment cuts both ways :) and in this case, everyone is happy. Anyone wanting more hours out of me is just trying to exploit my labor. I'm already getting paid fair value for what I'm producing.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  >As a business owner, I am not sure you would hire on the same axis If you are hiring salaried individuals on the basis on how many hours they put in a week, then you might be focusing on the wrong metrics. There were plenty of people in tech doing 20 hours of work a week, and spending the remaining 20 hours on hacker news. I bemoan WFH, but not because of work output.

ryandrake 6y ago

I think people who "enjoy interacting with IRL coworkers" should absolutely be allowed to return to their offices, but don't force people who work better from home or have four hour commutes (like me) to come back too. Some people have been really struggling with WFH and just can't make it work well for them, and they understandably want to get back to the office. That's great, and they should do it! But why not also let people who have been thriving under WFH continue to do it?

caddemon 6y ago

I'd probably prefer full-time WFH over full-time office 9-5, but I agree there is definitely a benefit to spending 1-2 days per week in the office. I'm hoping some more jobs with that sort of format will come out of this too.