4 ms·

Perhaps HN is of the opinion that you shouldn’t mix politics and violence?

Ar-Curunir 6y ago
Then HN is, for the lack of a better word, foolish. Politics is violence. What do you think the military does? What do you think the prison system does does? What do you think the police do? These are all political institutions, and they are all violent; it’s just that the target of the violence is maybe easier for some to ignore (poor black and brown people)
- filmfact 6y ago
  Cool. So rather than vote - shoot? Thomas Mair didn’t like the Jo Coxs politics so he took a shot too. I guess you’ll be setting up a kickstarter for a plaque for him too?
  - n4r9 6y ago
    The point seems to be that violence is inherent to politics, therefore does not on its own render an act unjustifiable; not that all violence for political purpose is justified.
    - filmfact 6y ago
      Only the kind that hurts people whose politics you don’t agree with is justified? Cool
      - colinb 6y ago
        You ask questions rather than state a position, so I'm not actually sure what your position is. Do you reject all violence? Under all circumstances? Some think that to be admirable. I think it's nonsense.
        filmfact 6y ago
        I reject putting up plaques to praise attempted murderers for the reason that it sets a bad example.
      - n4r9 6y ago
        It's just pointing out that all political power in this world is ultimately held through the direct or indirect threat of violence. It's not a moral judgement but a fact of the world. If my "politics" disagrees with those of the state, in that I don't believe people have a right to personal property, and that the police have no right to arrest me, then ultimately what will happen is violence against me by the state.
        filmfact 6y ago
        You could also abide by the law while voting for a party that supported whatever minority viewpoint you held. Of course if you voiced unpopular opinions publicly you might get shot by someone who cites Violet Gibson or Thomas Mair as an inspiration. Or you know - we could not put up plaques to attempted murderers.
        n4r9 6y ago
        Yes everyone could go around abiding the law all the time, and we could skip the Gordon riots, the suffragettes, the battle of Cable Street etc... . I'm glad that's not the world we live in and that people have the courage to follow through with their convictions against state oppression, with violence if need be.
        filmfact 6y ago
        Cool - so Thomas Mair plaque kickstarter supporter then? Because as I pointed out - you only cited examples whose politics you agree with. Take the mental leap.
        filmfact 6y ago
        I’m going to leave you with a quote from wikipedias page on Fascism: “Fascism rejects the assertion that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation” Congratulations.
        6y ago
- toyg 6y ago
  That’s an overgeneralization. It’s like saying that, because a car’s dashboard is made of plastic, the whole car is inherently plastic. The state has a monopoly on violence, as famously stated, but is not necessarily made of violence, nor should its governance and policy-creation mechanisms necessarily include violence. In fact, the main characteristic of modern democratic institutions is that they removed violence from most of the process.
  - Ar-Curunir 6y ago
    No, they only made violence hidden. Is incarceration nonviolent? What would happen if a prisoner decided to leave prison?
    - torstenvl 6y ago
      This seems a little sophistic. Yes, incarceration is not actually violent. It may be "violent" in some metaphorical sense, and some of the other inmates may be violent, but incarceration itself is not violent. I've had clients get incarcerated, and I've had clients facing potential capital sentences, and there is a world of difference.
watwut 6y ago
Generally, my impression is that HN is not against such thing. Nevertheless, when we are talking about Mussolini or 1926, violence and politics were mixed. There was no such thing as politics without mix of violence, because the question of "who should we be violent against" was the major political question of the time. Moreover at that time, Mussoliny himself was source of a lot of that violence.

Then HN is, for the lack of a better word, foolish. Politics is violence. What do you think the military does? What do you think the prison system does does? What do you think the police do? These are all political institutions, and they are all violent; it’s just that the target of the violence is maybe easier for some to ignore (poor black and brown people)

filmfact 6y ago
Cool. So rather than vote - shoot? Thomas Mair didn’t like the Jo Coxs politics so he took a shot too. I guess you’ll be setting up a kickstarter for a plaque for him too?
- n4r9 6y ago
  The point seems to be that violence is inherent to politics, therefore does not on its own render an act unjustifiable; not that all violence for political purpose is justified.
  - filmfact 6y ago
    Only the kind that hurts people whose politics you don’t agree with is justified? Cool
    - colinb 6y ago
      You ask questions rather than state a position, so I'm not actually sure what your position is. Do you reject all violence? Under all circumstances? Some think that to be admirable. I think it's nonsense.
      - filmfact 6y ago
        I reject putting up plaques to praise attempted murderers for the reason that it sets a bad example.
    - n4r9 6y ago
      It's just pointing out that all political power in this world is ultimately held through the direct or indirect threat of violence. It's not a moral judgement but a fact of the world. If my "politics" disagrees with those of the state, in that I don't believe people have a right to personal property, and that the police have no right to arrest me, then ultimately what will happen is violence against me by the state.
      - filmfact 6y ago
        You could also abide by the law while voting for a party that supported whatever minority viewpoint you held. Of course if you voiced unpopular opinions publicly you might get shot by someone who cites Violet Gibson or Thomas Mair as an inspiration. Or you know - we could not put up plaques to attempted murderers.
        n4r9 6y ago
        Yes everyone could go around abiding the law all the time, and we could skip the Gordon riots, the suffragettes, the battle of Cable Street etc... . I'm glad that's not the world we live in and that people have the courage to follow through with their convictions against state oppression, with violence if need be.
        filmfact 6y ago
        Cool - so Thomas Mair plaque kickstarter supporter then? Because as I pointed out - you only cited examples whose politics you agree with. Take the mental leap.
        filmfact 6y ago
        I’m going to leave you with a quote from wikipedias page on Fascism: “Fascism rejects the assertion that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation” Congratulations.
        6y ago
toyg 6y ago
That’s an overgeneralization. It’s like saying that, because a car’s dashboard is made of plastic, the whole car is inherently plastic. The state has a monopoly on violence, as famously stated, but is not necessarily made of violence, nor should its governance and policy-creation mechanisms necessarily include violence. In fact, the main characteristic of modern democratic institutions is that they removed violence from most of the process.
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  No, they only made violence hidden. Is incarceration nonviolent? What would happen if a prisoner decided to leave prison?
  - torstenvl 6y ago
    This seems a little sophistic. Yes, incarceration is not actually violent. It may be "violent" in some metaphorical sense, and some of the other inmates may be violent, but incarceration itself is not violent. I've had clients get incarcerated, and I've had clients facing potential capital sentences, and there is a world of difference.

watwut 6y ago

Generally, my impression is that HN is not against such thing. Nevertheless, when we are talking about Mussolini or 1926, violence and politics were mixed. There was no such thing as politics without mix of violence, because the question of "who should we be violent against" was the major political question of the time. Moreover at that time, Mussoliny himself was source of a lot of that violence.