4 ms·

I wish the so called open source projects were more inclusive. Many people would love to work on these projects, but are unable to because they need to have a p

I wish the so called open source projects were more inclusive. Many people would love to work on these projects, but are unable to because they need to have a paid employment to pay bills and feed family. Open Source projects give a platform for people from privileged background to show off their skills plus they are reducing the amount of work available. For example company won't hire someone to do X if they can find an open source project that does something like X. Big corporations are also exploiting those projects and make billions off of them while paying developers nothing. In some countries work for free is illegal and a person doing the work needs to be given at least a minimum wage. Companies who use such software are essentially getting labour without paying for it. We need to think about royalty system that will be reimbursing people working on those projects and creating a level playing field so people from poor backgrounds could also participate.

Aloha 6y ago
How do you propose open source projects get the revenue to offer a royalty program? Also, in what countries is volunteering for free illegal?
- harwoodleon 6y ago
  Well there’s https://gitcoin.co/ https://gitcoin.co/ Not royalties, but dues at least. A DAO structure would work well, but not many people seem to see it as viable.
- varispeed 6y ago
  Royalties should be based on % of revenue generated by a product where particular software is being used and distributed among contributors. You are conflating volunteering with internship. If a company recruits volunteers as software developers, this is a disguised internship and they'll get themselves liable. This is illegal in the UK.
  - Aloha 6y ago
    and if the open source project generates no revenue? Like, if Y is controlled by the Y foundation which is in part funded by Z company, Y foundation isnt really getting a direct revenue stream from the software - thats the thing about open source software, you dont have a say in how its used, and you cannot force payment. I think your read of the law on what is or isnt an internship is a wee bit of a hot take, but IANAL, and certainly not a UK Labor Lawyer.
    - varispeed 6y ago
      > and if the open source project generates no revenue? For example 0.1% of 0 is 0 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage) Whoever gets the revenue from the software should be paying. Regarding any constructs with foundations and other tax avoidance schemes, that's probably another topic.
      - Aloha 6y ago
        So, basically, you're saying that if you make money from the software, you should be required to pay money to the copyright holders (aka, the developers). At that point, what sets aside open source software from any other kind of software?
uhtred 6y ago
Middle class privilege is real.
adamrt 6y ago
This is the most confusing comment I've seen on HN in years. > I wish the so called open source projects were more inclusive. - What barrier is there currently to open source projects. Take the code, do whatever you want with it. - What is the difference between an open source project and a "so-called open source" project. Is the source available freely available? Then its open source. It is a gift! > Many people would love to work on these projects, but are unable to because they need to have a paid employment to pay bills and feed family. Why is that anyone else's problem? Billions of people don't get to do exactly what they want to do. Many (most?) open source contributors work on the open source in their spare time. "Many people would love to do X, but are unable to because Y". You can fill in those blanks for anything. > Companies who use such software are essentially getting labour without paying for it. We need to think about royalty system that will be reimbursing people working on those projects... They aren't paying for it because the person who wrote it didn't want them to pay for it. You are trying to control the explicit desires of the person who created and shared the software.
- varispeed 6y ago
  > What barrier is there currently to open source projects. Take the code, do whatever you want with it. There is a barrier to participate in development of those projects. Developers are expected to work for free and not every developer can afford to do it, so these projects are dominated by people from privileged backgrounds. > What is the difference between an open source project and a "so-called open source" project. Is the source available freely available? Then its open source. It is a gift! I am not sure why do you mean by this question. > Billions of people don't get to do exactly what they want to do. Many (most?) open source contributors work on the open source in their spare time. The problem is that "Open Source" is a source of free R&D for companies who don't have to pay salaries and taxes and developers are expected to give up their time for free. Big companies are promoting this, because it saves them money in the long run at the expense of developers. This is the same situation as with unpaid internships. If a company offers an unpaid internships, only people from privileged backgrounds can afford that (e.g. parents pay their bills) and people from poor background are missing out because they need to find a paid work often in completely different sector. That's why in many countries (for example in the UK) unpaid internships are illegal to level the playing field and to reduce the social divide. > They aren't paying for it because the person who wrote it didn't want them to pay for it. As I wrote above, in many places it is illegal. Everyone should be paid for their work even if they are privileged and don't want money (then they can send it to charity).
0xFFFE 6y ago
There is a time and place for this BS, this isn't one of those.

Aloha 6y ago

How do you propose open source projects get the revenue to offer a royalty program? Also, in what countries is volunteering for free illegal?

harwoodleon 6y ago
Well there’s https://gitcoin.co/ https://gitcoin.co/ Not royalties, but dues at least. A DAO structure would work well, but not many people seem to see it as viable.
varispeed 6y ago
Royalties should be based on % of revenue generated by a product where particular software is being used and distributed among contributors. You are conflating volunteering with internship. If a company recruits volunteers as software developers, this is a disguised internship and they'll get themselves liable. This is illegal in the UK.
- Aloha 6y ago
  and if the open source project generates no revenue? Like, if Y is controlled by the Y foundation which is in part funded by Z company, Y foundation isnt really getting a direct revenue stream from the software - thats the thing about open source software, you dont have a say in how its used, and you cannot force payment. I think your read of the law on what is or isnt an internship is a wee bit of a hot take, but IANAL, and certainly not a UK Labor Lawyer.
  - varispeed 6y ago
    > and if the open source project generates no revenue? For example 0.1% of 0 is 0 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage) Whoever gets the revenue from the software should be paying. Regarding any constructs with foundations and other tax avoidance schemes, that's probably another topic.
    - Aloha 6y ago
      So, basically, you're saying that if you make money from the software, you should be required to pay money to the copyright holders (aka, the developers). At that point, what sets aside open source software from any other kind of software?

uhtred 6y ago

Middle class privilege is real.

adamrt 6y ago

This is the most confusing comment I've seen on HN in years. > I wish the so called open source projects were more inclusive. - What barrier is there currently to open source projects. Take the code, do whatever you want with it. - What is the difference between an open source project and a "so-called open source" project. Is the source available freely available? Then its open source. It is a gift! > Many people would love to work on these projects, but are unable to because they need to have a paid employment to pay bills and feed family. Why is that anyone else's problem? Billions of people don't get to do exactly what they want to do. Many (most?) open source contributors work on the open source in their spare time. "Many people would love to do X, but are unable to because Y". You can fill in those blanks for anything. > Companies who use such software are essentially getting labour without paying for it. We need to think about royalty system that will be reimbursing people working on those projects... They aren't paying for it because the person who wrote it didn't want them to pay for it. You are trying to control the explicit desires of the person who created and shared the software.

varispeed 6y ago
> What barrier is there currently to open source projects. Take the code, do whatever you want with it. There is a barrier to participate in development of those projects. Developers are expected to work for free and not every developer can afford to do it, so these projects are dominated by people from privileged backgrounds. > What is the difference between an open source project and a "so-called open source" project. Is the source available freely available? Then its open source. It is a gift! I am not sure why do you mean by this question. > Billions of people don't get to do exactly what they want to do. Many (most?) open source contributors work on the open source in their spare time. The problem is that "Open Source" is a source of free R&D for companies who don't have to pay salaries and taxes and developers are expected to give up their time for free. Big companies are promoting this, because it saves them money in the long run at the expense of developers. This is the same situation as with unpaid internships. If a company offers an unpaid internships, only people from privileged backgrounds can afford that (e.g. parents pay their bills) and people from poor background are missing out because they need to find a paid work often in completely different sector. That's why in many countries (for example in the UK) unpaid internships are illegal to level the playing field and to reduce the social divide. > They aren't paying for it because the person who wrote it didn't want them to pay for it. As I wrote above, in many places it is illegal. Everyone should be paid for their work even if they are privileged and don't want money (then they can send it to charity).

0xFFFE 6y ago

There is a time and place for this BS, this isn't one of those.