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Another reason I personally would not like to get vaccinated. Nature and evolution solve all problems sooner or later.
by mrkramer 6y ago
Another reason I personally would not like to get vaccinated. Nature and evolution solve all problems sooner or later.
- hef19898 6y agoThe "later" part is the problem so.
- mrkramer 6y agoI mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids. That's how we evolved to the level of biological machine that human body is.
- hprotagonist 6y agoand now we’re evolved enough to have brains capable of giving us a competitive advantage against diseases! unless you think that brains somehow aren’t part of our biological machine.
- NicoJuicy 6y agoHow about IVF and that it becomes almost a necessity for all their children. Or the increased necessity of glasses at a young age. It's not the beneficiaries particular brain that gave the competitive edge ;)
- Omnitaus 6y agoThis is only an issue if everyone wants or needs kids. Glasses are similarly not a big deal. I feel like you could have used better examples to argue in favor of eugenics but at the end of the day it's still eugenics? People should have access to any and all medical advancements, better to address the problem than ignore it with selective breeding
- meowface 6y agoBut if you're not "weak", you could inadvertently spread it to someone who is "weak", and they could spread it to many other "weak" people, and then they all die and don't pass on their genes. It's true that this is a form of eugenics and natural selection, but it's not the kind that's compatible with the values of most humans.
- mrkramer 6y agoDon't worry I'm not going to harm anyone just like Spanish flu ended in 2 years this pandemic will also end soon. I discussed months ago here on HN that looking legally causing someone's death without intent is not criminal because you had no intent of killing. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea "A person commits an offense if he: intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual." I have no intent or knowledge that I'm going to harm anyone. Another guy said in that discussion something like "How is this virus any different from other viruses?" Should I blame people for spreading STDs for example? Of course not they spread it unintentionally and without knowledge in most cases.
- SirSavary 6y agoYou better hope that the judge handling your case doesn't stumble upon this comment thread. Your lack of Mens Rea isn't going to fly if you're caught meta-discussing the whole thing. Also, manslaughter?
- mrkramer 6y agoI'm not a lawyer but am I guilty because I want my human rights and my freedom of choice? Should I blame you or any other person of spreading STDs for example? Or any other disease without intent or knowledge? I welcome any legal advice because I have no INTENTION of HARMING anyone.
- rootusrootus 6y ago> I have no INTENTION of HARMING anyone. I feel the same way when I'm doing 150mph down the highway. And yet...
- sobriquet9 6y agoYou augment your memory with Google searches and your running speed with cars, why not augment your natural immune system with vaccines.
- hutzlibu 6y agoWell, I am about to get vaccinated with astrazeneca in half an hour ... but my counter argument would be: relying on vaccination and sterilisation too much, causes the immune system to be weak, too. Immune system needs practice, too.
- marcodiego 6y agoAntibiotics, maybe. But vaccines stimulate your immune system to produce antibodies.
- maxrev17 6y agoThat's literally what the jab does?
- hef19898 6y agoVaccines are immune system training on literal steroids. Overall I get your point so, as we see with increased allergies.
- biswaroop 6y ago> relying on vaccination and sterilisation too much, causes the immune system to be weak I think you fundamentally misunderstand the mechanism of vaccination.
- hutzlibu 6y agoI think I do, but do you? Because the way I understand it, vaccination trains only a very specific part of the immune system. Which is then indeed effective against the very specific virus, but does not really increase your general immune system strength.
- eCa 6y agoI will (most likely) not have kids, but even if I’m weak I don’t see it as my duty to die in order to not dilute the species.
- Zelphyr 6y agoIt’s not you dying that’s the problem with your statement so much as the other people you’re going to kill because of your choice not to get vaccinated. That’s one step away from a family member of mine saying recently, “You all can live in fear but I choose to live my life in faith that God will take care of me.”
- gjs278 6y agoall of those people are weak and it was their time to die
- hyko 6y agoIf you absolutely have to resort to trial and error, at least don’t be the error. Natural Selection is as dumb as a box of rocks and slow as molasses; when it comes to achieving a goal we humans do far better, far faster. There’s obviously the merest whiff of trolling here, but come on. *Edited so as not to besmirch the good name of frogs.
- marcodiego 6y agoSo, why don't you move to the wilderness and leaves the internet for us, the weak ones?
- james4k 6y agoNatural selection gave us the social structures that allow you to buy your cold cuts and quietly hoard your wealth so that you don't have to face an ounce of real hardship in your life.
- quonn 6y agoWhat strength is there in being able to resist COVID-19 specifically, which is just one arbitrary sickness out of many that can still arise? One that didn‘t even exist until recently? Strength and weakness are completely dependent on the environment and we are shaping that environment, for example by vaccinating.
- the_af 6y ago> I mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids. That's not how natural selection works.
- Robotbeat 6y agoWell, I prefer to prove my fitness by having the sense to be vaccinated rather than trying to fight against drowning in mucus.
- grumpwagon 6y agoPlease get vaccinated, it's good for society and yourself.
- mrkramer 6y agoI will if government requires it but it was not my free will.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y agoThat would still be your free will. You'd still be presented with a choice: A) Don't do the thing you don't want to (Vaccination) - or - B) Don't do the thing that having a vaccination would let you do. That's still freedom of choice - you're free to decide what you want more. Having constraints on you isn't removing your free will.
- gjs278 6y agothat’s barely freedom of choice. a robber pulling a gun on you and saying your money or your life isn’t what any reasonable person interprets as free will. free will would be not going to jail or being banned from society if you chose not to take the vaccine.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y agoIs there any such discussion about being banned from society or going to jail? That seems incredibly hyperbolic. What I've heard is discussions of things like cruises and international travel to certain destination, which are entirely optional activities.
- guscost 6y agoFunny, I’m the opposite. I would have no significant reservations if it wasn’t for the creepy fascist vibe oozing from beneath the facade of “science”. As it stands, I’ll go to war today and die to guarantee my and your and everyone’s right to refuse, should TPTB actually try anything that stupid. Shouldn’t be a problem though, the people in favor seem to be mostly bullies making noise. They tend to shut up when you let them know that their only path forward is to start, and then try to win, a war.
- cashewchoo 6y agoUnfortunately for us, nature and evolution "solving problems" frequently involves us all just dying and/or Earth spending a long period of time as a magma ocean and then several aeons as a hot rock.
- myself248 6y ago"The planet is fine. It's the people that're fucked!" -- Carlin
- meowface 6y ago>However, Covid would be able to cause an infection again once the cold had passed and the immune response calmed down. >Dr Murcia said: "Vaccination, plus hygiene measures, plus the interactions between viruses could lower the incidence of Sars-CoV-2 heavily, but the maximum effect will come from vaccination." Vaccines are an end product of nature and evolution, too, and are much more reliable than hoping you always happen to get infected with rhinovirus near the same time you're exposed to SARS-CoV-2.
- mrkramer 6y ago>Vaccines are an end product of nature and evolution, too, and are much more reliable than hoping you always happen to get infected with rhinovirus near the same time you're exposed to SARS-CoV-2. I agree with you but how safe is mRNA vaccine in the long term? I would rather take "classical" vaccine.
- itsmeamario 6y agoTell that to the dinosaurs.
- otabdeveloper4 6y agoPretty sure dinosaurs didn't die from Covid. (But it's a good theory, who really knows, amirite?)
- hypertele-Xii 6y agoThey grew wings and spread to every corner of the Earth? We call them "birds" now.
- _joel 6y agoYou might be happy to die needlessly but you endager others who don't want to.
- ghoward 6y agoNot the GP, but I have a question for you: if the vaccine works, why would I be putting others in danger by not getting it? Can't they get vaccinated instead? If they can't, doesn't that just mean the vaccine is defective? As far as I know, vaccines are meant for those who are weaker, so if they can't get it, it seems to me that the vaccine is defective. Also, the CDC has admitted that the asymptomatic transmission rate is far less than previously thought. (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm?s_cid=mm7004e3_w#discussion https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm?s_cid=mm...) With all of that put together, it seems to me that if I am healthy, it would be better for me to save the vaccines for those who want them and need them and let my immune system build my immunity.
- Tagbert 6y agoIf we have a significant population of unvaccinated people, that provides the breeding ground for the virus to multiply and mutate into new strains that may bypass the current vaccine induced immunity which would require yet another round of vaccines.
- ghoward 6y agoVaccinated people are still breeding grounds for a virus; they can still be carriers. Vaccines just give people the antibodies to not be affected by a virus.
- _joel 6y agoBut they are vastly less likely to shed if they have been vaccinated, therefore less transmission. https://theconversation.com/can-vaccinated-people-still-spread-the-coronavirus-155095 https://theconversation.com/can-vaccinated-people-still-spre...
- Dudideloo 6y agoI'd love to hear that from you when you're going to die.
- nomy99 6y agoYou do understand that nature/evolution's plan or 'solution' can be to eradicate you?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mrkramer 6y agoShould I cry that mother nature doesn't like me? It's not like I can do something about natural disaster(hurricane, flood, earthquake, volcano eruption etc.) killing me.
- hinkley 6y agoSo centuries of civil engineering advances by the Netherlands and Japan don't count as 'doing something'?
- mrkramer 6y agoDoing as an individual not as a society. Of course I can go to engineering school and help build defense mechanisms but as an average Joe I can move the needle only so much. I was speaking about a life of an individual not of human society or human civilization.
- hinkley 6y agoYou can choose to move away (although then you might have to deal with lightning and tornadoes and droughts), or you can choose to live in areas with better code compliance. Those are still in your control.
- mrkramer 6y agoYea I or you should evaluate risk factors but there is always a degree of randomness involved. There is no place on Earth you are 100% safe from natural disasters.
- robotbikes 6y agoPeople should be free to make choices regarding their own body but the notion of "nature" as an anthromorphic problem solver and superiority of genes is pretty out of sync with our reality. There are many augmentations we use to help survive and vaccines are no different. Glasses for instance are not "natural" but I don't see many people arguing that we should only let those with 20/20 vision survive. Going down that route leads to a lot of toxic notions. Writing this during the 15 minutes cool down after getting the first vaccine shot. So I know where I stand.
- mrkramer 6y ago>Glasses for instance are not "natural" but I don't see many people arguing that we should only let those with 20/20 vision survive. I agree with you. Glasses and vaccine are great achievements of human civilization but I raised questions about freedom, biology and moral. I'm not against vaccination I took many of them as a child and I have glasses which help and enhance me significantly but I'm not for mandatory vaccination or COVID passports that my European Union wants to enforce and I'm not for European Union limiting my human rights. We are going back to the days of Hitler where it was more important who you are "biologically" than looking at the fact that we are all humans and that we all have equal rights.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago> Glasses for instance are not "natural" There is quite a bit of pseudoscience on the internet that people don't really need glasses, they can train their eyes to work without them. See, for instance, the so-called Bates method[0], which had been well-debunked already in the mid-20th-century but, like so many quack claims, got a new life from the web. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bates_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bates_method
- marcodiego 6y agoEvolution gaves us very powerful brains. Why not use it?
- anonymouswacker 6y agoI share your skepticism. Vaccines are a relatively new technology, with various buggy vaccines coming out that were actually more harmful than helpful. Time will tell if the mRNA "Vaccine" will be a net positive. I am totally okay with other people injecting whatever they want in their bodies, as long as they don't try to make me do it, too. I would rather die of natural causes than a rushed-to-market product.
- andruby 6y agoWhat do you mean "Vaccines are a relatively new technology"? We've had vaccines since 1796 [0] when Edward Jenner developed a vaccine for smallpox, a terrible disease that we fully eradicated thanks to vaccination. A disease that you and me don't have to worry about because of vaccines. (Likewise for Cholera, Tetanus, Polio, Tuberculosis, Meningitis, etc) Also, trains, cars, planes, cameras, lightbulbs and every invention of Edison are newer technologies than vaccines. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_vaccines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_vaccines
- mamon 6y agoMaybe they mean "mRNA vaccines"? COVID vaccine is the first of this kind, so some side effects, especially long term ones, are still unknown. It's still unlikely that they would be very serious but we won't know for sure until 10 years from now.
- AshWolfy 6y agoHumans are a part of nature and vaccines are an evolutionary adaptation
- shishy 6y agoTalk about confirmation bias!