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No, but perhaps we'd like to "neuter" our careers in order to reduce the time spent in-transit, increase the flexibility with which you can do things around th

No, but perhaps we'd like to "neuter" our careers in order to reduce the time spent in-transit, increase the flexibility with which you can do things around the house during the day, and generally avoiding the "management in passing" that can occur when you're in the office. If it was a one-sided win for the company and no benefit being reaped by the employee then no one would opt for it.

ryandrake 6y ago
Exactly. There are plenty of benefits I get from WFH that have nothing to do with productivity. My commute is 2 hours each way. WFH lets me recover 20 hours per week and use it either to catch up on work or (usually) for pleasure. WFH has allowed me to actually see my child during the weekdays and bond. WFH lets me eat a healthy, inexpensive meal at home rather than blow $15/day at the local oil-and-carb lunch shacks near the office. WFH lets me discretely run errands around my home during down time rather than having to just sit in my office chair picking my nose. WFH has saved hundreds of gallons of gasoline and carbon footprint from my commute. This past year has been pretty much all upside, and it’s going to suck to throw it all away because Mr. CTO just can’t bear to not have his minions crawling around the shiny office.
- mr_gibbins 6y ago
  This should be top comment.
- nrki 6y ago
  As a rebuttal: you chose either the workplace or home that is a 2 hour commute away. You choose to buy $15 lunch instead of making something at home and taking it in. Other people have different situations. My commute is ~30 minutes to a fun workplace with free & healthy food. I do hope you keep your WFH, though :)
- FlyingSnake 6y ago
  I see where you're coming from but as a counterpoint the following point can be made. I hope you take it as a healthy steel-man argument: My commute is 20 minutes each way. I get to see and play with my child everyday because I manage to finish my work in time. I also cook my healthy home-cooked food with my family and also eat it in the office. I use bicycle or public transport to commute making me healthier. I can always run errands during office time because my team is considerate and understand the needs of us. I interact with my colleagues and tasks that took 2-3 meetings are now resolved in 1 single chat over coffee. The upside is that I have a healthy interaction with my fellow humans, and I can learn a few things from these interactions. It's going to suck to throw it all away because some WFH zealots want to stay holed in their cute little corner.
  - doix 6y ago
    I really miss my commute to work as well. It was a 35 minute walk or a 9 minute bike ride, and I did it 5 days a week without thinking about it. In the morning it helped me wake up and after work it helped me _reset_ and not think about work. I've lost that completely now, I find it extremely difficult to motivate myself to go out for a walk when there is no goal. Also the office was much bigger and the walk from my desk to get a tea or go to the bathroom let me get around 3k steps a day just inside the office. I can easily manage sub 1k steps a day nowdays since my desk/couch/kitchen/bathroom are about 20 steps from each other. Combine that with gyms being shut and lockdown preventing me from going surfing, I am in the worst shape I have ever been. I guess working from home without lockdown would be a different experience, but as it stands now, I really need to be in the office for my general health.
    - matwood 6y ago
      Sure, but you're right that what you're describing is because of the pandemic and only partially has to do with WFH. I've WFH for a long time and I've missed the gym, mid-morning Jiu-Jitsu, and going to the local coffee shop to mix up the day. I think we should change the terminology from WFH to something like Freedom of Work. I think what people really like is the freedom to work how they want. Classic WFH is the closest to that today, but the 'home' part carries a specific meaning that isn't really true for many who WFH. And again, I've found pandemic WFH to not really be represent of WFH pre-pandemic.
  - hnedeotes 6y ago
    The only difference being you could have that and others could have WFH? From what I see whenever this topic comes up, it seems that the only zealots are those who want to work in the office. Remote working people are always more, "I work better this way, and you all can keep working as you prefer". And, given the conditions you described most would be ok I guess. But, most don't have a 20min each way commute. Which then interferes with all the other points - seeing your children in the same vein as you do (if you have 1h or more of commute, you're going to miss the mornings and get home pretty much later, have less energy, etc), which also means you won't have the time to share on the home cooking (unless your partner does so and has a schedule that allows). You won't be cycling that distance either, instead you'll get a car, or public transportation. Running errands depends on the grace of your company, I'm sure many (and usually most where people are more inclined to work from home are exactly those where you won't be able to, either because the errands aren't geographically close enough or by office policy). I do see value in in-person presence, be it for bonding, relaxing or discussing work, on the other hand, in terms of work I don't see why you would need 2 meetings and not a video call, or call, just as you could do over a coffee. The other points about interaction, indeed, they have their own value.

ryandrake 6y ago

Exactly. There are plenty of benefits I get from WFH that have nothing to do with productivity. My commute is 2 hours each way. WFH lets me recover 20 hours per week and use it either to catch up on work or (usually) for pleasure. WFH has allowed me to actually see my child during the weekdays and bond. WFH lets me eat a healthy, inexpensive meal at home rather than blow $15/day at the local oil-and-carb lunch shacks near the office. WFH lets me discretely run errands around my home during down time rather than having to just sit in my office chair picking my nose. WFH has saved hundreds of gallons of gasoline and carbon footprint from my commute. This past year has been pretty much all upside, and it’s going to suck to throw it all away because Mr. CTO just can’t bear to not have his minions crawling around the shiny office.

mr_gibbins 6y ago
This should be top comment.
nrki 6y ago
As a rebuttal: you chose either the workplace or home that is a 2 hour commute away. You choose to buy $15 lunch instead of making something at home and taking it in. Other people have different situations. My commute is ~30 minutes to a fun workplace with free & healthy food. I do hope you keep your WFH, though :)
FlyingSnake 6y ago
I see where you're coming from but as a counterpoint the following point can be made. I hope you take it as a healthy steel-man argument: My commute is 20 minutes each way. I get to see and play with my child everyday because I manage to finish my work in time. I also cook my healthy home-cooked food with my family and also eat it in the office. I use bicycle or public transport to commute making me healthier. I can always run errands during office time because my team is considerate and understand the needs of us. I interact with my colleagues and tasks that took 2-3 meetings are now resolved in 1 single chat over coffee. The upside is that I have a healthy interaction with my fellow humans, and I can learn a few things from these interactions. It's going to suck to throw it all away because some WFH zealots want to stay holed in their cute little corner.
- doix 6y ago
  I really miss my commute to work as well. It was a 35 minute walk or a 9 minute bike ride, and I did it 5 days a week without thinking about it. In the morning it helped me wake up and after work it helped me _reset_ and not think about work. I've lost that completely now, I find it extremely difficult to motivate myself to go out for a walk when there is no goal. Also the office was much bigger and the walk from my desk to get a tea or go to the bathroom let me get around 3k steps a day just inside the office. I can easily manage sub 1k steps a day nowdays since my desk/couch/kitchen/bathroom are about 20 steps from each other. Combine that with gyms being shut and lockdown preventing me from going surfing, I am in the worst shape I have ever been. I guess working from home without lockdown would be a different experience, but as it stands now, I really need to be in the office for my general health.
  - matwood 6y ago
    Sure, but you're right that what you're describing is because of the pandemic and only partially has to do with WFH. I've WFH for a long time and I've missed the gym, mid-morning Jiu-Jitsu, and going to the local coffee shop to mix up the day. I think we should change the terminology from WFH to something like Freedom of Work. I think what people really like is the freedom to work how they want. Classic WFH is the closest to that today, but the 'home' part carries a specific meaning that isn't really true for many who WFH. And again, I've found pandemic WFH to not really be represent of WFH pre-pandemic.
- hnedeotes 6y ago
  The only difference being you could have that and others could have WFH? From what I see whenever this topic comes up, it seems that the only zealots are those who want to work in the office. Remote working people are always more, "I work better this way, and you all can keep working as you prefer". And, given the conditions you described most would be ok I guess. But, most don't have a 20min each way commute. Which then interferes with all the other points - seeing your children in the same vein as you do (if you have 1h or more of commute, you're going to miss the mornings and get home pretty much later, have less energy, etc), which also means you won't have the time to share on the home cooking (unless your partner does so and has a schedule that allows). You won't be cycling that distance either, instead you'll get a car, or public transportation. Running errands depends on the grace of your company, I'm sure many (and usually most where people are more inclined to work from home are exactly those where you won't be able to, either because the errands aren't geographically close enough or by office policy). I do see value in in-person presence, be it for bonding, relaxing or discussing work, on the other hand, in terms of work I don't see why you would need 2 meetings and not a video call, or call, just as you could do over a coffee. The other points about interaction, indeed, they have their own value.