4 ms·

What Stallman said verbatim: >The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such th

by tw04 6y ago

What Stallman said verbatim: >The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had sex. >We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. We'll set aside for a moment that he's trying to argue the only way that sexual assault can occur is if the attacker literally assaults the victim. It wasn't really the time or the place to try defending a friend by arguing semantics given the accusations. I guess if some billionaire flew me to a private island in the Carribean where young attractive girls started throwing themselves at me, and I was the age and... attractiveness of Minsky, giant alarm bells would have been blaring in my head and I think that of pretty much every sane American male. To not take the entirety of the situation into account and try to paint it as an innocent "I met a girl at the bar who lied about how old she was" is more than a bit disingenuous

adwn 6y ago
> I guess if some billionaire flew me to a private island in the Carribean where young attractive girls started throwing themselves at me, and I was the age and... attractiveness of Minsky, giant alarm bells would have been blaring in my head [...] As you may or may not know, some women will voluntarily have sex with men in exchange for money, no coercion or assault required. If a billionaire flew you to a private island with attractive woman offering to have sex with you, then the presumption that those women are paid prostitutes is not that far-fetched.
- tw04 6y ago
  >As you may or may not know, some women will voluntarily have sex with men in exchange for money, no coercion or assault required. Which is also illegal. And if you're having sex with a teenager for money, she probably has some pretty major life issues going on. Which as a 60-year-old - you should know better. Period. >If a billionaire flew you to a private island with attractive woman offering to have sex with you, then the presumption that those women are paid prostitutes is not that far-fetched. So... sex trafficking. By definition. Which is illegal both where it took place and in all party's country of origin.
  - adwn 6y ago
    > Which is also illegal. Where? Even within the US, prostitution laws vary wildly. > And if you're having sex with a teenager for money, she probably has some pretty major life issues going on. Did Minsky know that they weren't adults? Do you have a source for that? > So... sex trafficking. By definition. Wrong. Not even by definition. If you disagree, show me a valid definition of sex trafficking that includes "flying to an island to have sex with voluntary prostitutes".
    - tw04 6y ago
      >Where? Even within the US, prostitution laws vary wildly. I guess it's fortunate we have that information: Minsky is from Massachusets: illegal. Guifreye and Epstein Florida: illegal. Little St. James: illegal. >Did Minsky know that they weren't adults? Do you have a source for that? You entirely missed the point. A 60 year old man sleeping with someone young enough to be his granddaughter is disgusting. Full stop. The fact that AT BEST he knew she was a prostitute being sex trafficked makes it worse. >Wrong. Not even by definition. If you disagree, show me a valid definition of sex trafficking that includes "flying to an island to have sex with voluntary prostitutes". It is LITERALLY the definition: >the illegal business of recruiting, harboring, transporting, obtaining, or providing a person and especially a minor for the purpose of sex
      - adwn 6y ago
        > You entirely missed the point. A 60 year old man sleeping with someone young enough to be his granddaughter is disgusting. Full stop. You're moving the goal post. At first your claim was that Minsky should have known the women were coerced because otherwise they wouldn't have had sex with him. Now that I've refuted your claim, you shifted your position to, paraphrased, "he's a criminal because what he did offends my moral compass". > It is LITERALLY the definition: the illegal business of recruiting, harboring, transporting, obtaining, or providing a person and especially a minor for the purpose of sex That's not a valid definition of "sex trafficking", which requires an individual to be exploited and/or coerced to perform sexual acts. We don't know whether Minsky had reason to presume that the women were exploited and/or coerced, and we don't know whether Minsky had reason to presume that the women were minors.
- deleted 6y ago
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zackees 6y ago
> We'll set aside for a moment that he's trying to argue the only way that sexual assault can occur is if the attacker literally assaults the victim. So was it figurative assault or do words not have literal meaning anymore?
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by tw04 6y ago

adwn 6y ago

> I guess if some billionaire flew me to a private island in the Carribean where young attractive girls started throwing themselves at me, and I was the age and... attractiveness of Minsky, giant alarm bells would have been blaring in my head [...] As you may or may not know, some women will voluntarily have sex with men in exchange for money, no coercion or assault required. If a billionaire flew you to a private island with attractive woman offering to have sex with you, then the presumption that those women are paid prostitutes is not that far-fetched.

tw04 6y ago
>As you may or may not know, some women will voluntarily have sex with men in exchange for money, no coercion or assault required. Which is also illegal. And if you're having sex with a teenager for money, she probably has some pretty major life issues going on. Which as a 60-year-old - you should know better. Period. >If a billionaire flew you to a private island with attractive woman offering to have sex with you, then the presumption that those women are paid prostitutes is not that far-fetched. So... sex trafficking. By definition. Which is illegal both where it took place and in all party's country of origin.
- adwn 6y ago
  > Which is also illegal. Where? Even within the US, prostitution laws vary wildly. > And if you're having sex with a teenager for money, she probably has some pretty major life issues going on. Did Minsky know that they weren't adults? Do you have a source for that? > So... sex trafficking. By definition. Wrong. Not even by definition. If you disagree, show me a valid definition of sex trafficking that includes "flying to an island to have sex with voluntary prostitutes".
  - tw04 6y ago
    >Where? Even within the US, prostitution laws vary wildly. I guess it's fortunate we have that information: Minsky is from Massachusets: illegal. Guifreye and Epstein Florida: illegal. Little St. James: illegal. >Did Minsky know that they weren't adults? Do you have a source for that? You entirely missed the point. A 60 year old man sleeping with someone young enough to be his granddaughter is disgusting. Full stop. The fact that AT BEST he knew she was a prostitute being sex trafficked makes it worse. >Wrong. Not even by definition. If you disagree, show me a valid definition of sex trafficking that includes "flying to an island to have sex with voluntary prostitutes". It is LITERALLY the definition: >the illegal business of recruiting, harboring, transporting, obtaining, or providing a person and especially a minor for the purpose of sex
    - adwn 6y ago
      > You entirely missed the point. A 60 year old man sleeping with someone young enough to be his granddaughter is disgusting. Full stop. You're moving the goal post. At first your claim was that Minsky should have known the women were coerced because otherwise they wouldn't have had sex with him. Now that I've refuted your claim, you shifted your position to, paraphrased, "he's a criminal because what he did offends my moral compass". > It is LITERALLY the definition: the illegal business of recruiting, harboring, transporting, obtaining, or providing a person and especially a minor for the purpose of sex That's not a valid definition of "sex trafficking", which requires an individual to be exploited and/or coerced to perform sexual acts. We don't know whether Minsky had reason to presume that the women were exploited and/or coerced, and we don't know whether Minsky had reason to presume that the women were minors.
deleted 6y ago
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zackees 6y ago

> We'll set aside for a moment that he's trying to argue the only way that sexual assault can occur is if the attacker literally assaults the victim. So was it figurative assault or do words not have literal meaning anymore?

deleted 6y ago

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