8 ms·

But it was no vague anonymous - he once hit on me - lynch mob, but very concrete criticism of RMS. Things he said and did in the past - and in the present. (on

But it was no vague anonymous - he once hit on me - lynch mob, but very concrete criticism of RMS. Things he said and did in the past - and in the present. (only thing would be, that his "voluntary resign" was obviously done with a lot of pressure)

nyolfen 6y ago
one of those criticisms as a i recall was 'he had a mattress in his office' as if this suggested something untoward rather than him sleeping in his office
- dralley 6y ago
  No. If you go back and look at that accusation, it was that he was propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT, AND he had a mattress in his office.
  - nyolfen 6y ago
    > propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT you are going to need to cite that. the only accusations of 'sexual harassment' i have seen are asking women at conferences on dates.
    - jkaplowitz 6y ago
      That counts as harassment in my opinion if it happens without at least some reasonable reason to believe the women may be interested in dating him, if he persists with a given woman after she doesn't respond with interest, if there is any sort of power dynamic or other coercive context in place that might make the woman feel not free to decline without social or professional penalty (within a community like the free software world this obstacle would often be present in relation to someone like RMS who is prominent within that community), if he makes a habit of propositioning people in professional contexts, or if he asks women out in unprofessional ways like inappropriate touching. If none of these patterns occur, it's probably not harassment, but I suspect he does some of them. And if it is harassment, I'd probably say it's sexual harassment since it relates to unwanted seeking of romantic or sexual relationships in a professional environment.
  - h_anna_h 6y ago
    He used to live in his office.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      He moved out around 1998.[1] [1] https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  Well, but in combination with the sign on his office" Knight for Justice (and hot ladies)" and other remarks he did - you maybe see, why some people might get another idea? And why women feel uncomfortable around such a men? And why it therefore might be a bad idea to have such a person in a leadership position?
  - flippinburgers 6y ago
    Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      You know that as a fact, or are you providing alternative facts based on what? I have not seen the sign in person, but been told by people that it was indeed there.
      - h_anna_h 6y ago
        The source is https://whoisylvia.medium.com/richard-stallman-has-been-vilified-by-those-who-dont-know-him-a3907b25b4c7 https://whoisylvia.medium.com/richard-stallman-has-been-vili...
        hutzlibu 6y ago
        The source on that someone faked that door sign? Because I do not see that in there. edit: and the downvotes while still providing no source for alternative facts, just strenghten my image of the FSF and its followers as a quasireligious cult. And nothing I want to connect with, despite myself living and loving open source.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        ratww 6y ago
        > Because I do not see that in there. It's in the last paragraph.
neycoda 6y ago
Is it bad for a man to hit on a woman?
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  No. But to hit on any hot women out of principle(like his sign said on his office door) ... is not quite mature behaviour. Also called sexism/macho. And can you maybe see, how this makes women uncomfortable? And wanting to avoid such a person? And all together .. avoiding the whole group he has a leadership position?
- Frost1x 6y ago
  In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on. As a result, the new forms of dating are that in order to move forward your risk for "making a move" (be it small or large) is not only rejection but also, apparently, potentially career ending for many (especially public figures). I'm glad I'm happily settled and far removed from the dating scene. Perhaps my principles are too crass for many but I feel in today's romantic relationships, you almost need to have an attorney with you on a date and notary that can sign off that both parties are going to consent to physical contact before making physical contact or much beyond verbally flirting in the most uninteresting ways leaving both parties wondering if the other is at all interested in them romantically. I'm not condoning rape or flat out sexual assault, there is certainly a line that should never be crossed, but I think we've been moving that line too far for reasonably acceptable human behavior. Heaven forbid you take the chance of misreading the situation and attempt to kiss someone before also having that notarized by your attorney present.
  - doomslice 6y ago
    > In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on. I can't believe anyone seriously thinks this. It's bad if you're in a position of power and you hit on someone under your influence - doesn't matter if they would reciprocate or not.

nyolfen 6y ago

one of those criticisms as a i recall was 'he had a mattress in his office' as if this suggested something untoward rather than him sleeping in his office

dralley 6y ago
No. If you go back and look at that accusation, it was that he was propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT, AND he had a mattress in his office.
- nyolfen 6y ago
  > propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT you are going to need to cite that. the only accusations of 'sexual harassment' i have seen are asking women at conferences on dates.
  - jkaplowitz 6y ago
    That counts as harassment in my opinion if it happens without at least some reasonable reason to believe the women may be interested in dating him, if he persists with a given woman after she doesn't respond with interest, if there is any sort of power dynamic or other coercive context in place that might make the woman feel not free to decline without social or professional penalty (within a community like the free software world this obstacle would often be present in relation to someone like RMS who is prominent within that community), if he makes a habit of propositioning people in professional contexts, or if he asks women out in unprofessional ways like inappropriate touching. If none of these patterns occur, it's probably not harassment, but I suspect he does some of them. And if it is harassment, I'd probably say it's sexual harassment since it relates to unwanted seeking of romantic or sexual relationships in a professional environment.
- h_anna_h 6y ago
  He used to live in his office.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    He moved out around 1998.[1] [1] https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html
hutzlibu 6y ago
Well, but in combination with the sign on his office" Knight for Justice (and hot ladies)" and other remarks he did - you maybe see, why some people might get another idea? And why women feel uncomfortable around such a men? And why it therefore might be a bad idea to have such a person in a leadership position?
- flippinburgers 6y ago
  Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    You know that as a fact, or are you providing alternative facts based on what? I have not seen the sign in person, but been told by people that it was indeed there.
    - h_anna_h 6y ago
      The source is https://whoisylvia.medium.com/richard-stallman-has-been-vilified-by-those-who-dont-know-him-a3907b25b4c7 https://whoisylvia.medium.com/richard-stallman-has-been-vili...
      - hutzlibu 6y ago
        The source on that someone faked that door sign? Because I do not see that in there. edit: and the downvotes while still providing no source for alternative facts, just strenghten my image of the FSF and its followers as a quasireligious cult. And nothing I want to connect with, despite myself living and loving open source.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        ratww 6y ago
        > Because I do not see that in there. It's in the last paragraph.

neycoda 6y ago

Is it bad for a man to hit on a woman?

hutzlibu 6y ago
No. But to hit on any hot women out of principle(like his sign said on his office door) ... is not quite mature behaviour. Also called sexism/macho. And can you maybe see, how this makes women uncomfortable? And wanting to avoid such a person? And all together .. avoiding the whole group he has a leadership position?
Frost1x 6y ago
In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on. As a result, the new forms of dating are that in order to move forward your risk for "making a move" (be it small or large) is not only rejection but also, apparently, potentially career ending for many (especially public figures). I'm glad I'm happily settled and far removed from the dating scene. Perhaps my principles are too crass for many but I feel in today's romantic relationships, you almost need to have an attorney with you on a date and notary that can sign off that both parties are going to consent to physical contact before making physical contact or much beyond verbally flirting in the most uninteresting ways leaving both parties wondering if the other is at all interested in them romantically. I'm not condoning rape or flat out sexual assault, there is certainly a line that should never be crossed, but I think we've been moving that line too far for reasonably acceptable human behavior. Heaven forbid you take the chance of misreading the situation and attempt to kiss someone before also having that notarized by your attorney present.
- doomslice 6y ago
  > In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on. I can't believe anyone seriously thinks this. It's bad if you're in a position of power and you hit on someone under your influence - doesn't matter if they would reciprocate or not.