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That is completely untrue. Your ability to fix a broken car will depend on: 1) What and how it broke 2) Your preparation -- access to spares, tools, material

That is completely untrue. Your ability to fix a broken car will depend on: 1) What and how it broke 2) Your preparation -- access to spares, tools, materials 3) Your knowledge and resourcefulness There is a lot of critical mechanical parts on a car that are unrepairable, even at a car shop. Most of critical mechanical stuff on a car can only be fixed with a spare. Even changing your tire is just an act of using a spare. Ever broke anything within engine or transmission? Good luck fixing it with basic tools in wilderness. When car mechanic says he's repaired something, there is good probability he means he has replaced the part that was faulty. If you go across Africa, take spares for what is needed and tools to diagnose / repair. If you worry your computer may break, carry a spare. Carry a multimeter, some spare tools and materials to fix common electrical issues. Electronic spares and tools do not take that much space and if you are worried about electronics there is no excuse not to take them. People complain they can't repair electronics on a car but that's only because they never applied themselves the same way they applied to learn and fix mechanics. My father specializes in repairing car / truck / bus etc. electronics. He uses simple tools and his experience to repair things. He has been flown to from Poland to South Africa to fix a large crane that Volvo could not fix themselves. All with basic tools. There is nothing inherently more difficult about fixing electronics on a car. --- As a side note, I would prefer older car to drive over Africa but not because of lack of electronics but rather because of more margins, higher clearances and resistance to wear tear. As to repairing in the wild they are easier to repair because they are SIMPLER, and the parts are more accessible (as in easier to reach them), not because they don't have electronics. I am not expert mechanic therefore I will have better chance repairing simple car. I am not expert electronics engineer therefore I will have better chance repairing car with simple electronics. Does that make sense?

NicoJuicy 6y ago
These days, garage owners need a licensed computer for diagnostics. And only official ones can get them and a high cost.
- lmilcin 6y ago
  Most of the faults can be diagnosed without the computer, if you know how. Diagnostics is nice because it gives you readout in one place, but the output is what the computer sees, not what actually happens. Also, where is your licensed computer to diagnose mechanic problems? There isn't any? What a shame... how can you fix a mechanical problem without car telling you which part broke... The computer diagnostics is a response to mechanics having no knowledge of electronics (also because it kinda make sense if you already put computer in).
  - mox1 6y ago
    This is just straight untrue. You can throw parts at the car while taking educated guesses, but to cost and time effectively fix the car you absolutely need the diagnostic software. Crank position sensors, cam position sensors, EGR, Fuel system pressure, per-cylinder electrical failures, etc, etc., etc.. can all be guessed at by a shade-tree mechanic. But good luck fixing it quickly and without buying a bunch of parts. My 2010 Mercedes van require parts to be electronically "mated" to eachother, so even if I know the right part, I need the Mercedes software to tell the computer to hook up with the new part. I've been a "shade-tree" mechanic for most of my life. I would say '98 is roughly correct when full fuel injection became pretty standard. Once you have that, you need a half dozen or so other sensors to make the system work. And you need precise fuel pressure. It just gets more complicated from there.
    - lmilcin 6y ago
      You wrote it yourself: > "but to cost and time effectively fix the car you absolutely need the diagnostic software." > "etc, etc., etc.. can all be guessed at by a shade-tree mechanic. But good luck fixing it quickly and without buying a bunch of parts." That was exactly my point. Car CAN be fixed without the software. It just takes more time (and knowledge). If you are an owner of a repair shop then that is probably deal breaker. You can't hire actual engineers to fix cars, the cost would be prohibitive. But nothing is stopping you to fix the car (except if manufacturer like John Deere makes it their mission to stop you from repairing it). If electronics is broken your mission is to find the broken part and replace it, not reprogram it, which is basically the same as with mechanical faults.
jfoutz 6y ago
very very tangentially related, but I think interesting. US Sherman tanks were not very good tanks. But there were a lot of them, and they were crewed by kids who grew up on farms. Those kids likely spend a fair amount of time keeping the tractor running. Two big things going for them. 1, a ready supply of spare parts, from other tanks that didn't make it. 2, some understanding of the system, allowing people to macgyver solutions out of bubblegum and bailing wire. As to your side note, I agree. I'd want something dirt simple, partly because, even though I might be able to pull off an amazing feat of engineering, I'd rather have the solution be obvious. Since we're wishing, I'd also like everyone in a 1000 mile radius to have the same car, so I can find a dead one to strip if I need parts. (but that's not realistic given the implicit remoteness of the situation described).
- Mauricebranagh 6y ago
  The Sherman was a good tank for its role it wasn't as "Gucci" as a Panther or a Tiger. And fixing a Sherman is far more complex than a tractor but a hell of a lot less of a PITA than a German tank. Of course if you had a major malfunction you said "oh dear my tank/jeep/rifel is buggered" get me a new one. There is the secondary q of should they have up gunned the US Sherman's quicker and had more hot ammo.
- protomyth 6y ago
  "US Sherman tanks were not very good tanks." The main person's opinion[1] has been debunked by multiple authors. It was a very good tank and fulfilled the American objectives. Particularly when you take into account the US Army's belief "tanks shouldn’t take on other tanks". The later gun upgrade even took care the of late war tank-on-tank battles. 1) ‘Death Traps’ by Belton Cooper
  - lmilcin 6y ago
    I would add that better is the enemy of the good. It is better to have a good tank in large numbers than a better one but so expensive that you can only have limited numbers of it. Germans had better tanks but it did not help because they were expensive to produce and were heavily outnumbered.
s0rce 6y ago
older diesels are valuable because they came before a lot of emissions regulations and will run on dirty fuel, desirable in Africa, this could be the issue the OP is actually describing.
briffle 6y ago
I have a 2015 pickup, in the US, and its the speed up changes with the electronics that worries me. My touch-screen controls most features of the vehicle. (after some nice jeep hacks, I learned it controls much more than I thought) but they only used that model for a year or two. The Axle, drive line, brakes, etc, have been used for at least a decade on my model of pickup, and Cummins engine parts are the same across trucks, generators, marine engines, and easy to find my size. I just worry about the 'cost' of finding a working computer module in 2030, for my 2015 pickup, if it fails. At $2500 now, I'm not going to buy a spare.
markb139 6y ago
I tried to repair some electronics on a modern car and it was impossible for me to buy a new SIM card holder of the same sort. The dealer would happily take £3k off me for a new unit. I’ve now got a salvaged waiting to go in
TedShiller 6y ago
It is completely true, unfortunately.
imtringued 6y ago
I have a car where a mechanical component with a electronic controller board was broken. When you swap the mechanical component you also end up swapping the electronics. I had to send the car to the dealership after being rejected by two independent mechanics because they are the only ones with the authorized electronic repair tool.
TedShiller 6y ago
I wish you were right, I truly do

NicoJuicy 6y ago

These days, garage owners need a licensed computer for diagnostics. And only official ones can get them and a high cost.

lmilcin 6y ago
Most of the faults can be diagnosed without the computer, if you know how. Diagnostics is nice because it gives you readout in one place, but the output is what the computer sees, not what actually happens. Also, where is your licensed computer to diagnose mechanic problems? There isn't any? What a shame... how can you fix a mechanical problem without car telling you which part broke... The computer diagnostics is a response to mechanics having no knowledge of electronics (also because it kinda make sense if you already put computer in).
- mox1 6y ago
  This is just straight untrue. You can throw parts at the car while taking educated guesses, but to cost and time effectively fix the car you absolutely need the diagnostic software. Crank position sensors, cam position sensors, EGR, Fuel system pressure, per-cylinder electrical failures, etc, etc., etc.. can all be guessed at by a shade-tree mechanic. But good luck fixing it quickly and without buying a bunch of parts. My 2010 Mercedes van require parts to be electronically "mated" to eachother, so even if I know the right part, I need the Mercedes software to tell the computer to hook up with the new part. I've been a "shade-tree" mechanic for most of my life. I would say '98 is roughly correct when full fuel injection became pretty standard. Once you have that, you need a half dozen or so other sensors to make the system work. And you need precise fuel pressure. It just gets more complicated from there.
  - lmilcin 6y ago
    You wrote it yourself: > "but to cost and time effectively fix the car you absolutely need the diagnostic software." > "etc, etc., etc.. can all be guessed at by a shade-tree mechanic. But good luck fixing it quickly and without buying a bunch of parts." That was exactly my point. Car CAN be fixed without the software. It just takes more time (and knowledge). If you are an owner of a repair shop then that is probably deal breaker. You can't hire actual engineers to fix cars, the cost would be prohibitive. But nothing is stopping you to fix the car (except if manufacturer like John Deere makes it their mission to stop you from repairing it). If electronics is broken your mission is to find the broken part and replace it, not reprogram it, which is basically the same as with mechanical faults.

jfoutz 6y ago

very very tangentially related, but I think interesting. US Sherman tanks were not very good tanks. But there were a lot of them, and they were crewed by kids who grew up on farms. Those kids likely spend a fair amount of time keeping the tractor running. Two big things going for them. 1, a ready supply of spare parts, from other tanks that didn't make it. 2, some understanding of the system, allowing people to macgyver solutions out of bubblegum and bailing wire. As to your side note, I agree. I'd want something dirt simple, partly because, even though I might be able to pull off an amazing feat of engineering, I'd rather have the solution be obvious. Since we're wishing, I'd also like everyone in a 1000 mile radius to have the same car, so I can find a dead one to strip if I need parts. (but that's not realistic given the implicit remoteness of the situation described).

Mauricebranagh 6y ago
The Sherman was a good tank for its role it wasn't as "Gucci" as a Panther or a Tiger. And fixing a Sherman is far more complex than a tractor but a hell of a lot less of a PITA than a German tank. Of course if you had a major malfunction you said "oh dear my tank/jeep/rifel is buggered" get me a new one. There is the secondary q of should they have up gunned the US Sherman's quicker and had more hot ammo.
protomyth 6y ago
"US Sherman tanks were not very good tanks." The main person's opinion[1] has been debunked by multiple authors. It was a very good tank and fulfilled the American objectives. Particularly when you take into account the US Army's belief "tanks shouldn’t take on other tanks". The later gun upgrade even took care the of late war tank-on-tank battles. 1) ‘Death Traps’ by Belton Cooper
- lmilcin 6y ago
  I would add that better is the enemy of the good. It is better to have a good tank in large numbers than a better one but so expensive that you can only have limited numbers of it. Germans had better tanks but it did not help because they were expensive to produce and were heavily outnumbered.

s0rce 6y ago

older diesels are valuable because they came before a lot of emissions regulations and will run on dirty fuel, desirable in Africa, this could be the issue the OP is actually describing.

briffle 6y ago

I have a 2015 pickup, in the US, and its the speed up changes with the electronics that worries me. My touch-screen controls most features of the vehicle. (after some nice jeep hacks, I learned it controls much more than I thought) but they only used that model for a year or two. The Axle, drive line, brakes, etc, have been used for at least a decade on my model of pickup, and Cummins engine parts are the same across trucks, generators, marine engines, and easy to find my size. I just worry about the 'cost' of finding a working computer module in 2030, for my 2015 pickup, if it fails. At $2500 now, I'm not going to buy a spare.

markb139 6y ago

I tried to repair some electronics on a modern car and it was impossible for me to buy a new SIM card holder of the same sort. The dealer would happily take £3k off me for a new unit. I’ve now got a salvaged waiting to go in

TedShiller 6y ago

It is completely true, unfortunately.

imtringued 6y ago

I have a car where a mechanical component with a electronic controller board was broken. When you swap the mechanical component you also end up swapping the electronics. I had to send the car to the dealership after being rejected by two independent mechanics because they are the only ones with the authorized electronic repair tool.

TedShiller 6y ago

I wish you were right, I truly do