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> It will also help allay safety concerns that have disrupted its use in the European Union after a small number of reports of rare blood clots in people who ha

> It will also help allay safety concerns that have disrupted its use in the European Union after a small number of reports of rare blood clots in people who have received the shot. Yes, but that rumour will now never go away, and the tin-foil-hatters will have more of a reason to claim "big pharma" is behind it all. Instead of all this research into proving it's safe (which it already was, even with minimal bad side-effects, I mean, even anti-conception pills have side-effects, a minimal amount of negative side-effects would statistically be fine and not worth a fuss), I wish scientists around the world spent more time on how to properly convince vaccine-skeptics that it's safe AND a good idea to take part. The biggest danger isn't the vaccines, it's people refusing to take them.

curiousgal 6y ago
> I wish scientists around the world spent more time on how to properly convince vaccine-skeptics that it's safe AND a good idea to take part. I completely disagree. I think part of why this anti-science attitude is prevalent is because people acknowledge it an try to respond to it. You should not engage in a conversation about whether vaccines cause autism or whether the earth is flat. You simply enact policies that enforce the right thing. Because this shouldn't be a discussion. Responding to those people only validates their stance.
- 734129837261 6y ago
  These people want the best, too, mostly. Education should ALWAYS be the go-to default in any situation. These people need to be educated, not ignored, nor ridiculed. Enforcing the "right thing" will alienate these people even more than they already are. They won't feel listened to and fall back into their echo-chambers even more.
- alvah 6y ago
  "You simply enact policies that enforce the right thing" That's a very naïve view of how science (and the world) works. Who gets to decide what "the right thing" is? What if they're later proven wrong, do their good intentions undo whatever damage is caused?
  - curiousgal 6y ago
    You're telling me the countries that require children to be vaccinated in order to go to schools are not doing the right thing?
    - alvah 6y ago
      No, I’m telling you forcing a bureaucrat’s idea of the right thing on everyone is fraught with problems.
    - psychiatrist24 6y ago
      Personally I think individual schools should have the right to demand vaccinations, but demanding every kid to be vaccinated to be allowed to school would not be the right thing, no. People who don't want to vaccinate should be allowed to seek institutions that school their kids without vaccinations.
- throwaway199997 6y ago
  You're just a subhuman animal who gets knowledge from John Oliver.
Freak_NL 6y ago
It doesn't really matter that they have one more reason. The tinfoilhat-crowd (we call them 'wappies' in Dutch) will latch onto anything. If not this, then something else will take its place; the supply of bogus arguments is inexhaustible. What matters is that the concerns the general populace may have are addressed, and usually they are. A GP who takes the time to get to know their patients and allay any concerns about vaccination in general is much more important to be able to reach the people who may have read weird things on social media, but are not in full-out wappie-teritory.
- adflux 6y ago
  >The tinfoilhat-crowd (we call them 'wappies' in Dutch) A very divisive term which will only increase the divide between the "believers" and "nonbelievers". Please treat people who don't share your ideas & ideals with respect and don't use blanket statements to demonize groups.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    Respect is earned, not innate.
    - kossTKR 6y ago
      The history of the pharmaceutical industry is absolutely jam packed with deception, corruption and sinister lobbying. Read up on the Sackler family for a good overview of horrible practices that is just the tip of an enormous iceberg. The fact that a group of idiots exists doesn't mean one should talk about "big pharma" like it's fantasy. It's corporate lobbying, and it exists in all industries. And it's often pretty bad. I find it incredible that people on a "hacker" forum has become so incredibly authoritarian and uniform, and call even the slightest sceptic all kinds of names. Even if some of them are dumb people. All of these companies incentives is : profit. Like always. There has been a myriad of medical scandals over the last 100 years where profit has trumped safety. Why should anything be different now suddenly? One should handle everything with extreme scrutiny especially in vaccines tested way less than normal. This should not be "controversial" to say for any science minded person.
fabian2k 6y ago
I don't see how it would help with this, as the study had 32,000 participants. That wouldn't tell you much about rare side effects that appear on the order of 1 per a hundred thousand. The blod clots are not a rumour, they're there. It's not certain the vaccine caused them, but that doesn't make this a rumour. And the events do seem to be unusual enough that they certainly need investigation. Doesn't mean the vaccine is unsafe, the events seem to be still very rare, even if they are caused by the vaccine, so the benefits still outweigh the risks. But the events are very serious, so this does need to be monitored closely and needs to be taken seriously. Downplaying potential side effects is not the way to create trust in the vaccine.
- 734129837261 6y ago
  > The blod clots are not a rumour, they're there. That's just dishonest reporting of facts. People died after getting the vaccines, too. In car accidents. Unrelated but nice clickbait headlines. > It's not certain the vaccine caused them, but that doesn't make this a rumour. And the events do seem to be unusual enough that they certainly need investigation. The rumour is that the vaccines caused it. The rumour is NOT the blood clots.
69throwaway 6y ago
I am already autistic and have done many vaccines in my life. I don't think that the vaccines make people autistic or not. I don't think they contain any mind-controlling chips either. But I won't do this vaccine. Especially not the AstraZeneca one. It's not (only) about the known side-effects. It's about the unknown side-effects and about the fact that not even all medical experts are interested in taking these vaccines. I know way too many doctors in various countries who are not so keen on taking the vaccine. Unfortunately, humans are not like computers and we don't have as good of an understanding, holistically. If I top that with the fact that, whatever we live through now is due to multiple mistakes that pretty much all the politicians did over the 1+ year (and before that by not creating proper infrastructure), both on the public health domain and on the economy. Down-vote me.
goatinaboat 6y ago
I wish scientists around the world spent more time on how to properly convince vaccine-skeptics that it's safe AND a good idea to take part. You are being disingenuous here. The vast majority of skeptics in this case are people who have been thoroughly vaccinated against other things and are simply concerned about the accelerated testing schedule of these particular vaccines.

curiousgal 6y ago

> I wish scientists around the world spent more time on how to properly convince vaccine-skeptics that it's safe AND a good idea to take part. I completely disagree. I think part of why this anti-science attitude is prevalent is because people acknowledge it an try to respond to it. You should not engage in a conversation about whether vaccines cause autism or whether the earth is flat. You simply enact policies that enforce the right thing. Because this shouldn't be a discussion. Responding to those people only validates their stance.

734129837261 6y ago
These people want the best, too, mostly. Education should ALWAYS be the go-to default in any situation. These people need to be educated, not ignored, nor ridiculed. Enforcing the "right thing" will alienate these people even more than they already are. They won't feel listened to and fall back into their echo-chambers even more.
alvah 6y ago
"You simply enact policies that enforce the right thing" That's a very naïve view of how science (and the world) works. Who gets to decide what "the right thing" is? What if they're later proven wrong, do their good intentions undo whatever damage is caused?
- curiousgal 6y ago
  You're telling me the countries that require children to be vaccinated in order to go to schools are not doing the right thing?
  - alvah 6y ago
    No, I’m telling you forcing a bureaucrat’s idea of the right thing on everyone is fraught with problems.
  - psychiatrist24 6y ago
    Personally I think individual schools should have the right to demand vaccinations, but demanding every kid to be vaccinated to be allowed to school would not be the right thing, no. People who don't want to vaccinate should be allowed to seek institutions that school their kids without vaccinations.
throwaway199997 6y ago
You're just a subhuman animal who gets knowledge from John Oliver.

Freak_NL 6y ago

It doesn't really matter that they have one more reason. The tinfoilhat-crowd (we call them 'wappies' in Dutch) will latch onto anything. If not this, then something else will take its place; the supply of bogus arguments is inexhaustible. What matters is that the concerns the general populace may have are addressed, and usually they are. A GP who takes the time to get to know their patients and allay any concerns about vaccination in general is much more important to be able to reach the people who may have read weird things on social media, but are not in full-out wappie-teritory.

adflux 6y ago
>The tinfoilhat-crowd (we call them 'wappies' in Dutch) A very divisive term which will only increase the divide between the "believers" and "nonbelievers". Please treat people who don't share your ideas & ideals with respect and don't use blanket statements to demonize groups.
- Avamander 6y ago
  Respect is earned, not innate.
  - kossTKR 6y ago
    The history of the pharmaceutical industry is absolutely jam packed with deception, corruption and sinister lobbying. Read up on the Sackler family for a good overview of horrible practices that is just the tip of an enormous iceberg. The fact that a group of idiots exists doesn't mean one should talk about "big pharma" like it's fantasy. It's corporate lobbying, and it exists in all industries. And it's often pretty bad. I find it incredible that people on a "hacker" forum has become so incredibly authoritarian and uniform, and call even the slightest sceptic all kinds of names. Even if some of them are dumb people. All of these companies incentives is : profit. Like always. There has been a myriad of medical scandals over the last 100 years where profit has trumped safety. Why should anything be different now suddenly? One should handle everything with extreme scrutiny especially in vaccines tested way less than normal. This should not be "controversial" to say for any science minded person.

fabian2k 6y ago

I don't see how it would help with this, as the study had 32,000 participants. That wouldn't tell you much about rare side effects that appear on the order of 1 per a hundred thousand. The blod clots are not a rumour, they're there. It's not certain the vaccine caused them, but that doesn't make this a rumour. And the events do seem to be unusual enough that they certainly need investigation. Doesn't mean the vaccine is unsafe, the events seem to be still very rare, even if they are caused by the vaccine, so the benefits still outweigh the risks. But the events are very serious, so this does need to be monitored closely and needs to be taken seriously. Downplaying potential side effects is not the way to create trust in the vaccine.

734129837261 6y ago
> The blod clots are not a rumour, they're there. That's just dishonest reporting of facts. People died after getting the vaccines, too. In car accidents. Unrelated but nice clickbait headlines. > It's not certain the vaccine caused them, but that doesn't make this a rumour. And the events do seem to be unusual enough that they certainly need investigation. The rumour is that the vaccines caused it. The rumour is NOT the blood clots.

69throwaway 6y ago

I am already autistic and have done many vaccines in my life. I don't think that the vaccines make people autistic or not. I don't think they contain any mind-controlling chips either. But I won't do this vaccine. Especially not the AstraZeneca one. It's not (only) about the known side-effects. It's about the unknown side-effects and about the fact that not even all medical experts are interested in taking these vaccines. I know way too many doctors in various countries who are not so keen on taking the vaccine. Unfortunately, humans are not like computers and we don't have as good of an understanding, holistically. If I top that with the fact that, whatever we live through now is due to multiple mistakes that pretty much all the politicians did over the 1+ year (and before that by not creating proper infrastructure), both on the public health domain and on the economy. Down-vote me.

goatinaboat 6y ago

I wish scientists around the world spent more time on how to properly convince vaccine-skeptics that it's safe AND a good idea to take part. You are being disingenuous here. The vast majority of skeptics in this case are people who have been thoroughly vaccinated against other things and are simply concerned about the accelerated testing schedule of these particular vaccines.